juliemaxine Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I am the computer person, but not so much the car person. Hubby will be helping me in that department. 1995 Subaru Legacy Wagon, I think 2.2L but not positive. 160,000 miles. This has all happened in the last 3-4 months I believe. Oil change at a Jiffy Lube or similar in December, antifreeze was low. Car was dead, took to shop and they replaced the alternator with a new alternator. Shortly after, CEL came on and started running rough. Shop said mice chewed on plug wires. Replaced plug wires and plugs. Not sure what brand on those. CEL still coming on, and blinking sometimes. Took back to shop, said 1 plug wire damaged again, just repaired the wire. 2 days ago, ran car cold (in 40 degree weather). On a steep hill shortly after start, lost power and stalled. Gas tank full. Restarted and got to bottom of hill before it died again. Waited a couple minutes, restarted and ran ok but still slightly rough for the next 2 days, plus I think a slight loss of power. Hubby replaced coil. Antifreeze was low again. But no antifreeze in the oil, he says. Just had the code checked, misfire in 3 & 4, which I think has been the code every time. Running basically the same after the coil replacement. I know it's an old car and to expect some of this stuff, but don't want to pour a lot more money into it if it's not going to help. Any suggestions for the next think to check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliemaxine Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I should clarify, there was a period of time between the oil change and alternator replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 new NGK plugs (basic copper cores are just fine) and New NGK or OEM Subaru plug wires should cure the misfire/rough running issue. These cars a fussy about those things and do not like aftermarket brand wires. coolant loss could be something as simple as a small leak or bad radiator cap. When is the last time the fuel & air filters were changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliemaxine Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Air filter recently. Fuel filter, not since we've had it. Over a year for sure. Where is the fuel filter? Is it difficult? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 fuel filter is located under the hood, drivers side. Canister type with the hose fittings at the top - It is not difficult to change. 2 hoses and the clamping bracket that holds it in place. Spark plugs: NGK V power - BKR5E-11 - gapped at about .040-.041 (middle of gap range - .038 - .044) Plug wires: NGK wire set, part number 8004, or get a set of OEM wires from a dealer (the NGKs will probably be the cheaper alternative) more expensive than parts store wires but worth every penny in the headaches they save. The NGKs are also numbered to correspond with the correct cylinder, making installation a piece of cake. Do not buy cheap parts store branded wires! they have been documented to cause all kinds of ignition/running problems with these cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I own one 95 at the moment and have owned two others. They will last well over 200K unless they rust out, so 160K on the motor and trans isn't much. They are all 2.2. I figure that the 95 should get to 250K at least, and I own a 97 [also a 2.2] which already has 225k Previous comments are spot on. But aside from the running problems, you have to figure out where the coolant is going. Losing coolant is not a normal or common problem with a 95. Look under car where it's parked. Look under car while its on a rack. Do some investigation. It's probably a hose leak or a leak around the radiator. If so, it should be obvious. You don't have to be a motor expert to spot a green stain, just observant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliemaxine Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 We were hoping it would last that long also. We're looking for the coolant leak today. The last nice day for awhile. I have what is probably a silly question, if the miss problem is caused by the plugs and wires, why does it only show 3 & 4? Why not all of them? We are planning on changing them, and the fuel filter, I am just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) hard to say with any real certainty without knowing the specific car, but there are any number of reasons for it to only show up on 2 cylinders and not all. it could just as easily have been 1 & 2, or 2 & 4, etc... worn out plugs can cause misfires and plugs dont all wear exactly the same, as can a bad wire (cracks in the outer skin are a big one) the fact that you changed the coil with no change in the misfire codes says it wasnt the coil Edited January 30, 2015 by heartless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 heartless,, timing jump cause this,, like one or 2 teeth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Timing jump will cause misfires, but typically will be limited to the side that jumped. 1&3 on passenger side or 2&4 on drivers. Timing jumped on drivers side can set misfire codes for all 4 because the cam sensor is on drivers side. If the timing jumps at the crank you'll likely get misfires on all 4. The coils are controlled by the igniter module on the firewall. Small rectangular black box dead center above the dogbone mount. 5 wires on the plug there, make sure the pins are clean and its plugged in tight and no wires chewed by mice. With just misfire codes for 3&4 I would be looking at plugs wires and coil/igniter wiring. These often leak coolant slow from the thermostat housing (where lower radiator hose meets the block). Usually new thermostat gasket will fix that. Edited January 30, 2015 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 heartless,, timing jump cause this,, like one or 2 teeth? what Faritax said - would typically be either one side, or all cylinders - the OP has one misfire on each side, suggesting it isnt timing related... changing plugs can tell us more by inspecting the old plugs - fouling and/or improper gap can both cause a misfire. bad wire(s) will cause misfires as well - if there is a crack, or even a little pinhole, the spark can arc to the block instead of going thru the plug like it is supposed to. a loose boot on either end can cause a similar issue - make sure wires are firmly & fully seated on both ends. had some cheap wires on my 90 when I got it - about halfway thru the return trip of a 3 hour drive it started acting up really bad - lost power, bucking, etc - & set a CEL - pulled off the interstate & into a gas station, popped the hood and I could see one wire was arcing to the block thru the plug boot - it had a pinhole in it. I was able to wrap the bad area with electrical tape and was able to get home ok, but it was a royal pain in the backside the rest of the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliemaxine Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks everyone. We will probably change plugs and plug wires this weekend, weather permitting. Will let you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliemaxine Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Plugs, wires and fuel filter replaced. No change, except maybe missing worse. We're going to remove a plug, blow some air in it, and see if fluid comes out. Hubby said no fluid was on the plugs when he changed them, but we're stuck at this point. And we can't find a coolant leak anywhere but still losing coolant. Starting to overheat slightly now also. Are we on the right path? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Head gaskets are possible. Start it and see if the radiator hoses are pressurized after running only 30 seconds to a minute. Should be no pressure until the engine has been running for 5 minutes or so. If there is pressure in the hoses soon after starting its due to combustion gasses being pushed into the cooling system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 First, what codes is the computer throwing? If you have a CEL on, you will have diagnostic codes stored. Figure those out and you will probably find the rough running problem. Have you even tried disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU? Throwing parts at it without diagnosing the problem is a waste of time and money. My first impression is that your coil pack (what the plug wires plug into) is also damaged. They do go bad without any warning, or there may just be corrosion there. The coolant loss is not electrical: it's something entirely separate. A new radiator cap may be just the ticket (use Subaru Genuine!), or a pinhole in a coolant hose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliemaxine Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 My original post shows all the codes and symptoms and what we've done so far. My update was to show that we'd replaced the plugs and plug wires again with no change. We replaced the coil before we did the plugs/wires with a better brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) When hubby changed the plugs, did he notice if the plug tips were unusually clean, almost like new but with a satin like finish? If they were, that would indicate that a small amount of coolant is getting into the combustion chamber and steam cleaning the plugs. It would seem to me to be unusual for this to happen on one cylinder on each head, this usually happens on adjacent cylinders. If coolant goes through the intake manifold, then the intake manifold gasket could be leaking and that would account for it happening to cylinders 3&4. Since he changed the wires, it might be a good idea to double check the firing order and also look into a new distributor cap (unless this is a lost spark system) Edited February 17, 2015 by keith3267 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No distributor cap. Misfire still could be due to wiring between the coil and igniter, or a faulty igniter module. Igniter is mounted dead center on the firewall just above the dogbone mount. Definitely worth it to verify if the head gaskets are eaking before throwing more parts at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My next thought is a couple of burned exhaust valves: very common issue and can cause all your symptoms except possibly the coolant loss. (More reading here: http://www.ehow.com/list_7559711_burned-exhaust-valve-symptoms.html ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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