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Will 2nd Gen BRZ Ever Happen?


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#1 MR_Loyale

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 12:56 PM

The recent sales figures from Subaru in regards to the BRZ don't inspire confidence that a second gen will happen. The BRZ numbers stick out like a sore thumb. While all other models are reporting record historical month over year sales (2014 Feb vs 2015 Feb ) the BRZ sales decreased 45%.   And this isn't the first month this has happened. There have been no rumors or spy shots or anything even regarding the 2016 BRZ. I got to think the execs are thinking there isn't a business case for a new gen BRZ.

 

I recall that when it was first out, the dealership didn't know anything about it other than the young punks all wanted one (did I just age myself lol?). Being the greedy bastards they are, they slapped on an extra $3000 to the selling price as a "market adjustment". Today it seems they can't give them away. Oh how the tables have turned.

 

Of course the big complaint is the power. I suppose after being left at the traffic light from a dead stop and being smoked by the mom in a mini van full of screaming brats, consoling yourself with it being a "drivers car" just doesn't cut it.  The fact that Consumer Reports rated it so badly doesn't help either.  I don't put much stock in CR ratings because I have seen cars they rated badly go on to become high mileage champs, my Loyale being one of them. A lot of times the complaints are minor issues and such. But manufacturers should correct them. Honda got knocked a few years by CR and they went and corrected the issues and are now back on top. They seemed to have listened. I don't see that happening with the BRZ. Maybe Subaru have secret plans I am not aware of?

 

Then of course there is the 800lb Gorilla in the room, the WRX. There are several compelling reasons for a WRX over the BRZ, it goes faster, easily modded for even more power and it will hold its value probably as good or not better than any car out there. Go price a used WRX if you don't believe me. The trouble with the WRX for me personally (cover your ears oh yea followers of the church of WRX), it is UGLY.  Yes I said I think the WRX is ugly. Damn fast yes, but ugly ugly ugly ugly ugly and  I won't recant! Burn me at the stake if you wish, but I won't recant. 

 

The real car I want from Subaru is a BRZ with the innards of the WRX or conversely the WRX with the BRZ styling. It doesn't have to be AWD. I do not want a sedan. I have a nice little Loyale that will outlast me and anything that goes wrong with it I can fix or find out how to fix here on USMB.  I want an impractical sports car not a utilitarian sedan that goes fast.  That impractical car has to at least go faster than a mini-van.

 

In the end I might just buy the last BRZ ever offered at a closeout model discount. That is kind of how I got my Loyale after all.  That would really be kind of cool actually. A tradition if you will.


Edited by MR_Loyale, 15 March 2015 - 01:02 PM.


#2 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 11:10 PM

... I have a nice little Loyale that will outlast me and anything that goes wrong with it I can fix or find out how to fix here on USMB ...

 

It is interesting that some of us, always have to bring our old-school Subies to the conversation, despite that the Subject is another Subie model that almost has nothing to do with the old one. It happens to me a Lot.  :) 

 


 

The Story of the Subaru BRZ is almost Equal to the Story of the Subaru Baja, but something that might lead the BRZ production to cease, is not only sales records, but also the fact that Toyota is now in Partnership with another car maker, to build another Sports Coupe: BMW.

 

~► http://www.motorauth...roduction-lf-lc

 

Others says that Such a Toyota-BMW super coupe is Bullsh¡t, but the same happened years ago when the Subaru-Toyota project for the -then- new AE86 project was only a Rumor, see:

 

~► http://www.ultimates...-11#entry647249

 

Only time will tell the Truth...

 

Kind Regards.



#3 MR_Loyale

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 02:00 AM

I think the Toyota BMW partnership is another reason the second gen BRZ may not happen as well.  It is my impression that Toyota always wanted to make the twins faster. I think the BMW partnership is proof of that. I suspect it has been Subaru that have been dragging their feet because they don't want a WRX competitor. The WRX is getting long in the tooth and even if the twins were never made, Ford is coming out with a competitor, at least on paper.  Of course that is ugly too, lol. And I don't see the point of a family sedan/race car.  Do we really need baby's strapped in the back while dad sees how fast he can do 0-60mph?  Sounds dangerous to me.

 

 

By the time Subaru comes out with a second gen it may be that no one will care. Right now there are lots of choices for sports cars and muscle cars. The American cars, Challenger, Camaro and Mustang are competitively priced and seem to be on or close to par with build quality at least compared to the twins.  Subaru needs to either drop the BRZ and say so or get off their behinds and do a really new generation. A new paint color and slap on body molding won't cut it.


Edited by MR_Loyale, 16 March 2015 - 02:01 AM.


#4 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 08:54 AM

... Ford is coming out with a competitor, at least on paper...

 

Not only on Paper, see:

~►
 http://www.ultimates...wrx-competitor/

 

Kind Regards.



#5 MR_Loyale

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:27 AM

Not only on Paper, see:

~►
 http://www.ultimates...wrx-competitor/

 

Kind Regards.

 

I don't think it is in the US right now is it? Maye this summer.  Have any mags done comparison tests yet?  At any rate the Ford is ugly as well (as a sports car). Just my opinion only. 



#6 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 03:26 AM

I think the badge engineering really hurt the sales of the BRZ. Including the deal that gave the BRZ lower production numbers and an inflated cost vs the FRS... This was a big part of the reason that I didn't buy one.

Focus RS hatch, yummy. Doubt I would buy one of those either, but the original RS's made damn good rally cars. They had so much turn in, you would get neck strain.



#7 Verdurous

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 07:43 AM

It seems like a great car, handles well but just doesn't "go" like a sports car should. Unfortunately It looks much faster than it moves. I was impressed with this press release, but being a clean diesel I doubt it will ever make it to the states. Not to mention it was fake anyway. :(

 

http://media.subaru....wo-seater&mid=1

 

Also the BMW Toyota hybrid seems to be on it's way, though I wouldn't worry about competition as it is in an entirely different price bracket.

 

http://www.gtspirit....upra-successor/

 

It's most likely going to be badged as a Toyota because BMW announced working on the I9, so I wouldn't see them making both.


Edited by Verdurous, 23 March 2015 - 07:48 AM.


#8 Verdurous

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 07:45 AM

I would love to see a wide body BRZ with STI numbers :) but I doubt that will ever happen.



#9 Uberoo

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:11 PM

I would just be happy if I could afford one,but those closest im gonna come come to owning a rwd boxer powered car would be if I can finally swap in a EJ22 into a rx7.Just life has changed and I will now be selling the rx7 soon because we are gonna be moving.



#10 Gloyale

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:16 AM

Yeah the car should really have been faster.

Competition should be Nissan 370z and Mazda RX-8. Cars with much more hp.

Really needs turbo or 6 cyl option

#11 dfoyl

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 03:45 PM

Not a good idea to target the Z and now-defunct RX8 - declining sales on the Z shows the market has moved to US domestic platforms (Mustang / Cuda / Camaro) at that price point.

 

I can see the BRZ being replaced in the Toyota line-up by a Supra at the performance end (more $$) and a FWD 2 door at the cheap end (based on the Corolla platform like the Paseo of the mid 90s).

 

Where that leaves Subaru is the big question. The logical step is a 2 door Impreza, which could be used as a starting point for a 3G Brat (shared front end and doors). A shooting-brake wouldn't be out of the question off that platform too. I could see a near-WRX powered 2 door wagon as being quite desirable if Subaru put some effort into the quality of the interior.



#12 crazyhorse001

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 11:50 AM

Following the BRZ saga reminds me of another tragic car story, the SVX. It too had moves like Flynn, but lacked raw power. The dealers didnt know how to sell it either. Why Fuji didnt learn its lesson then, i dont know.

#13 MR_Loyale

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 06:29 PM

The March numbers are in.  Once again the BRZ stands out and not in a good way.

 

http://media.subaru....ord-march-sales



#14 Subasaurus

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 08:00 PM


I don't think it is in the US right now is it? Maye this summer. Have any mags done comparison tests yet? At any rate the Ford is ugly as well (as a sports car). Just my opinion only.

all of our old subarus are ugly, you gotta admit it, the EA82 is funky looking, the vehicle on my profile picture, the back is hideous, why do we like our old subarus so much that they become pretty to our eyes only? cuz their unique and don't see one on the road like you would a civic, but blah blah drama drama with new vehicles, but one thing is for sure, i HATE new cars, i hate the plastic, i hate the 5specialty tools to just change an air filter (exagerration) i hate the styling on new vehicles, looks like an egg going down the road, especially the FIAT, im just glad i think all the new vehicles are ugly as hell so i woun't be tempted to buy one and the old vehicles look amazing and actually have personality and style. oh and did i mention not having to be in debt for 7years with an ugly plastic disposable car? so i thank all of you on this forum for owning an old gen subaru and keep those hideous ugly cars going!

Edited by Subasaurus, 19 April 2015 - 08:01 PM.


#15 MR_Loyale

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 10:01 PM

all of our old subarus are ugly, you gotta admit it, the EA82 is funky looking, the vehicle on my profile picture, the back is hideous, why do we like our old subarus so much that they become pretty to our eyes only? cuz their unique and don't see one on the road like you would a civic, but blah blah drama drama with new vehicles, but one thing is for sure, i HATE new cars, i hate the plastic, i hate the 5specialty tools to just change an air filter (exagerration) i hate the styling on new vehicles, looks like an egg going down the road, especially the FIAT, im just glad i think all the new vehicles are ugly as hell so i woun't be tempted to buy one and the old vehicles look amazing and actually have personality and style. oh and did i mention not having to be in debt for 7years with an ugly plastic disposable car? so i thank all of you on this forum for owning an old gen subaru and keep those hideous ugly cars going!

 

Well ugly does seem to be the new style. Yes they are plastic crap. You make many good points.  They all look like eggs thanks to the government mandates on gas mileage. 


Edited by MR_Loyale, 19 April 2015 - 10:12 PM.


#16 Subasaurus

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 07:29 AM


Well ugly does seem to be the new style. Yes they are plastic crap. You make many good points. They all look like eggs thanks to the government mandates on gas mileage.

and thanks to the government taking like 4grand for our junk vehicles now even though new cars are already overpriced and by trading in your 70's vehicle they discount 4 grand and your left with like wow someone is actually going to give me 4 grand for my old car, yeah! but instead its the other way around and old cars are all gone and people are just realizing what a stupid mistake they did back in the early 2000s so now were left with like 5% of survivors to restore, part out, and have fun in winter and the beach with them. also did you know that new cars are now being tracked and that was a main reason government didn't want old cars on the road? oh and their not rigged to break so your not forced into an endless cycle of buying a new vehicle every 7years, buy a new car, more taxes to our government, the only stupid people are us for buying new vehicles, i really hate this country sometimes.

Edited by Subasaurus, 20 April 2015 - 07:31 AM.


#17 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 02:11 AM

... Yes they are plastic crap ...

 

The very Worst part is about to show its ugly tip: All the interior plastics in New cars is designed to be "Biodegradable" so, the plugs on your wiring harness (and other plastics) will start to Crumble and Disintegrate after around ten years of Ownership... You can see this Happening already with certain cars, while the Plastics on our old Subies are still Strong like New...

 

How could you Keep on the Road a car that is made of Plastics done with short lifespans by mandatory laws?

 

Kind Regards.



#18 Subasaurus

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 08:24 AM

The very Worst part is about to show its ugly tip: All the interior plastics in New cars is designed to be "Biodegradable" so, the plugs on your wiring harness (and other plastics) will start to Crumble and Disintegrate after around ten years of Ownership... You can see this Happening already with certain cars, while the Plastics on our old Subies are still Strong like New...

How could you Keep on the Road a car that is made of Plastics done with short lifespans by mandatory laws?

Kind Regards.

this is why you dont see many cars between the years 1996-2001, and if you do see one, its in terrible condition with the body being 7different colors.

and that gap is just going to grow and eventually be 1996-2015.

Edited by Subasaurus, 21 April 2015 - 08:26 AM.


#19 Gloyale

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 10:12 AM

New AWD lexus RC should have been the first BRZ

#20 MR_Loyale

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 10:41 PM

and thanks to the government taking like 4grand for our junk vehicles now even though new cars are already overpriced and by trading in your 70's vehicle they discount 4 grand and your left with like wow someone is actually going to give me 4 grand for my old car, yeah! but instead its the other way around and old cars are all gone and people are just realizing what a stupid mistake they did back in the early 2000s so now were left with like 5% of survivors to restore, part out, and have fun in winter and the beach with them. also did you know that new cars are now being tracked and that was a main reason government didn't want old cars on the road? oh and their not rigged to break so your not forced into an endless cycle of buying a new vehicle every 7years, buy a new car, more taxes to our government, the only stupid people are us for buying new vehicles, i really hate this country sometimes.

 

Yes all new cars now come with little on-board tracking boxes (data recorders). Ostensibly they are just for recording seconds before a crash but who is to say what is inside there? Don't comply with the government and they remotely turn off your car. Now they have control over your healthcare, your finances and your transportation. Land of the Free my behind.



#21 Subasaurus

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 07:57 AM

that is why ive questioned subarus quality today, the laws and new vehicles how their built, im not so sure if their build is the same way, i love the small details subaru puts into their old vehicles like instead of a Z shape on the door lock bars inside, theres actually a bolt to calibrate it with, you can move and calibrate the window thanks to the ovaled out shaped in the holes where the bolts go, everything on the vehicle is calibrateable, not sure about new subarus. love the blue on the Brz but then again, i don't buy new subarus because i don't know much about the quality that has gone to them due to the fact that their pretty much Toyota now.

Edited by Subasaurus, 22 April 2015 - 07:58 AM.


#22 ea81turbo

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 05:17 PM

Possibily a better platform for a3rd generation brat would be a legacy because even though mini pickups are a great idea they have not been too popular compared to a typical ford falcon or Holden commodore ute.

#23 SnatchedHatch

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 03:39 PM

Possibily a better platform for a3rd generation brat would be a legacy because even though mini pickups are a great idea they have not been too popular compared to a typical ford falcon or Holden commodore ute.

 

I get that you seem to be talking about Australia's market?

..but things are about to change on that point. Again, who knows what Subaru will be doing because their overall sales figures are low and every  one-off car they make comes in even lower, so trend or not, they'll do as they please it seems (:/)!

 

Mini pickups are hitting the US market next year, or if gas prices stay low, delayed until they aren't.. but it will make it.

Dodge is releasing a small pickup based off of a current Fiat platform in Europe. It's selling points are a remarkably low price, and yeah.. Brat sized specs. All wheel drive, etc.

 

Let me find the article for you, but to put it into perspective, all engine variants were 4 cylinder as I recall.

 

http://www.autoblog....l-truck-mexico/

http://www.autoblog....at-rampage-spy/

http://truckyeah.jal...fiat-1608582287

 

Can't quite find the original I read, but this is the Fiat in question. Seems Dodge has been playing with a small pickup idea for a few years now, and this is the running option.


Edited by SnatchedHatch, 23 April 2015 - 03:47 PM.


#24 Leeroy

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 07:44 AM

Nitpicking SnatchedHatch... You say that overall Subarus sales figures are low? Where exactly? You're right on the small ute idea though, check out the Hyundai Santa Cruz.

I find all this conjecture on the BRZ fascinating but Subaru never wanted to build it in the first place. Only 1 in 10 built are BRZs anyway, if it has a future it is because Toyota wants it to have one not Subaru.

on another note, with Subaru selling 500,000 of their current models in the USA I doubt they will take many risks in new product. Think, 'if it ain't broke..."

Such a shame too, chasing the USA market has meant Subaru has lost a lot of their uniqueness and IMHO, character.

#25 SnatchedHatch

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 03:12 PM

Nitpicking SnatchedHatch... You say that overall Subarus sales figures are low? Where exactly? You're right on the small ute idea though, check out the Hyundai Santa Cruz.

I find all this conjecture on the BRZ fascinating but Subaru never wanted to build it in the first place. Only 1 in 10 built are BRZs anyway, if it has a future it is because Toyota wants it to have one not Subaru.

on another note, with Subaru selling 500,000 of their current models in the USA I doubt they will take many risks in new product. Think, 'if it ain't broke..."

Such a shame too, chasing the USA market has meant Subaru has lost a lot of their uniqueness and IMHO, character.

While I see I may have been undertstood as saying Subaru sales have dropped, I meant they represent a marginal piece of the U.S. auto market.

 

"By the usual measurements, Subaru should be no more than an afterthought
in the U.S. car market. It sells just seven car and crossover models
and accounts for a slim 2.3% of U.S. auto sales. By itself, the Toyota
Camry outsells the entire Subaru lineup. For years Subaru has been
essentially a regional brand — strong in the Northeast and Northwest but
unknown in the rest of the country. No overnight success, Subaru of
America — the U.S. arm of Japan’s Fuji Heavy Industries — began selling
cars in the U.S. 44 years ago and still ranks only 12th in size. Hyundai
and Kia, which arrived two decades later, have developed broader
product lines and sell several times more vehicles."

 

http://fortune.com/2...-money-can-buy/
 

 

As for how Subaru sales are measuring up to their track record, they're doing very well! The Outback and Forester really push the numbers, hell almost every Subaru... 7/10, I see in my area are new and old Foresters.

http://www.fool.com/...ales-surge.aspx


Edited by SnatchedHatch, 24 April 2015 - 03:14 PM.





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