1996 OBS Suspension Issues/Questions

[lstevens76]

So I don't clutter up other threads, and hopefully get some good responses, I'm starting this one.

 

Let's start with the issues, and what my thoughts are.  

 

First one local shop already confirmed what I thought that I have bad struts, but they don't believe the issue I'm experiencing is struts.  I believe it could be if the struts are collapsed to the point I'm riding on springs.

 

The issues:

When going over a bump you get a "spring wobble" noise that is reflected in the steering wheel with a wobble.  

 

Going down the interstate at 65/70mph wind and other road conditions cause the rear end to feel like it's swaying back and forth.  This isn't "externally visible" from a vehicle behind me, but I can sure feel it from the drivers seat.

 

It does handle well and any other time you really wouldn't know something is wrong.  When I say bumps I'm referring to pot holes, grooved pavement (yes they did that stupid stuff on the interstate here), etc....  

 

It turns well, etc...

 

I'm also not sure the height is right.  I was under the impression that an OBS should be higher than say an FWD Legacy.  I parked front to back last night (legacy front end is about 2" from the rear end of my OBS) and they look almost the exact same height.

 

I'm trying to get some confirmation on my thinking the struts are collapsed and I'm riding on springs.

 

Whether that's the issue or not, I do need to replace the struts so I've been looking at all my options.

 

1.)  I do want to gain a couple inches to make the car easier to get in and out of.  Nothing drastic, just a little higher. 

 

2.)  I do not want to drill new holes.  From what I've read this means swapping top-hats for say Forester Struts, but I can't find any confirmation that the tophats themselves will work without spacers/modification.

 

3.)  I don't think it would be good to re-use the springs that are on the car right now if I am riding on the springs.  I just bought it so I have no idea how long this has been going on and there could be damage so I want to plan to just swap all the struts and springs.

 

Ok, I've already replaced the tires and they are all balanced, just an FYI.

 

I can get a full used set of good OBS Strut Assemblies for $160.  But as I said I think the car is a little low.  This could be due to a variety of reasons all strut related and they might be fixed after replacing the struts so........................

 

Help/advice?

[Fairtax4me]

You wanna get the struts done first.

Push down on each front corner of the car a few times and see if it keeps bouncing after you stop pushing. If it acts like a water bed, struts are bad.

 

 

The wandering/ go where ever it wants feeling is probably from the front. I put up with that feeling for years on my car and never could find anything with enough play in it to make the difference. Finally just replaced both big front control arm bushings (Subaru calls it a transverse bushing).

These are filled with silicone grease that leaks out and then the bushing starts to move around and let's the control arm move. The drivers side was leaking, but I never saw the passenger side leak. Couldn't get much play out of it even with a 4 ft prybar. Finally took it off and the thing was split all the way around.

Probably was that way before I even bought the car back in 09. I've put about 75k miles on it with that bushing totally worn out. Replaced everything else I could think of first because I never figured that one was bad. (It never leaked and never had any real play)

I replaced both of those bushings with a whiteline anti-lift kit set on it and the wander is totally gone. It is SOOOO nice to not have to constantly fight the wheel to keep the thing going straight.

( The only reason I went with the whiteline bushings is they were the same cost as new TV bushings from Subaru, and my car is lifted which puts more stress on those bushings. They do improve handling in many other aspects though. Worth the $175 I paid for them)

 

You can get cheap replacements from amazon about $30 each. Dealer they're like $100 each.

They're a pain to replace. The nut that secures the bushing to the control arm is tightened to about 140ftlbs. The 2 bolts that hold the bushing to the chassis are 135 ft lbs IIRC. And they're like 3" long so you have to turn them for forever to get them out.

[lstevens76]

I agree the struts need done.  I don't have any Wander on it, the only issues are when I hit potholes/grooved pavement and wind (literally wind hitting it causes the rear end to sway when at interstate speeds).

 

The big question is struts, not sure what route to go, etc....

[wtdash]

Hi,

Not sure I'm clear on your question?

 

I'd get the KYB struts I see on Amazon or ebay. Not sure I trust the other no-name brands. Approx. $70 each. They made my '95 Impreza new again.

 

BTW, unlike the Legacy OB the OBS is not lifted in the Impreza. From Cars101.com, "The ground clearance was 6.3", the same as the L Sport Wagon. "

 

Go checkout RS25.com, dedicated to the Impreza. Likely good options there for lifts. The Forester's would just require some searching on the rear top hat issue, as you noted.

Edited April 13, 2015 by wtdash

[SnatchedHatch]

I agree, as well, you need new struts, they can cause a variety of symptoms when worn excessively.

 

Check out my thread

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/152839-link-thread-for-swapping-subaru-struts-into-gc8gf8-come-all-and-post-advice-and-questions/

on this topic, it's exactly the info you are looking for, if you decide to go with a Subaru strut swap.

 

There are a number of options and methods to go with when swapping Subie struts.

 

While bolt-on KYB factory new struts are hassle free, you can't beat the low prices of a used set.

 

Also, if you swap your struts, you should change out the rubber/tophats and springs. Those wear out and cause problems.

Edited April 14, 2015 by SnatchedHatch

[lstevens76]

That gave me a good read and a decision against Forester Struts.  Although I like the idea of the lifting it a little which would make it easier to get in and out of, I'm simply not willing to give up the handling performance.

 

Now to research what my other options are, including used.  

[lstevens76]

Hi,

Not sure I'm clear on your question?

 

I'd get the KYB struts I see on Amazon or ebay. Not sure I trust the other no-name brands. Approx. $70 each. They made my '95 Impreza new again.

 

BTW, unlike the Legacy OB the OBS is not lifted in the Impreza. From Cars101.com, "The ground clearance was 6.3", the same as the L Sport Wagon. "

 

Go checkout RS25.com, dedicated to the Impreza. Likely good options there for lifts. The Forester's would just require some searching on the rear top hat issue, as you noted.

 

Yep, same as the "L Sport Wagon".  When you read the 1997-1998 they cover the fact that the Outback Sport had a 6.5" clearance while all other models had a 5.7" clearance and in 1999-2001 it was a 6.5" to a 6.1" clearance.

 

The problem is they don't state how they obtained the different clearance.  Whether by struts, springs, or some other method.  It's odd.

[1 Lucky Texan]

what did the 'local shop' feel was causing the wandering?

 

can you find another shop to inspect the steering/suspension?

 

there are plenty of parts that can lead to loose suspension/steering. rack bushings, control arm bushings,sway bar mounts and endlinks, etc.

 

what kind of tires are on the car? properly inflated?

 

(I rode in someone's car once that had radials at one end and bias ply on the other - felt like we we trying to balance the car on top of a bowling ball!)

Edited April 14, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[lstevens76]

Ok, first thing is to me this isn't wandering.  I had an old Ford pickup as a kid that wandered, although real bad, and my '01 Durango wanders (either the steering u-joint or inner tie-rod ends but haven't figured out which yet).

 

Wandering to me is going down the road and the car will drift one way or the other on its own without moving the steering.  You correct and it will drift again, sometimes the other direction.  That or having a "loose" feeling steering wheel can also cause wandering to me (i.e. my Durango is an example of that one as well).

 

On the OBS the steering is completely tight and the only time it tries to wander is on our stupid grooved pavement, but every car I've driven over that grooved pavement has issues.

 

Now, to explain the issue again and it has two causes, one of which I'm fixing ahead of the other.

 

When going over a pothole, mostly driver's side, you will get a "springing" noise and the steering wheel will "wobble" and it feels as if the front end wobbles as well.

 

Since I didn't know if it was the tires (2 bald, 2 ok, none matching tread) I replaced all the tires w/ a brand new set I got lucky and picked up off Craigslist for $100 (on rims).  After they were put on it was better, but obviously still there.  I realized I hadn't had them balanced so I had them balanced.  Again, better but still there.

 

The first shop I took it too thought it was axles and stated all the front suspension was tight but that the struts were bad. Since he didn't believe struts would cause the problem I was experiencing he put the blame on the axles (even though no boots are broken and the axles seem fine.)

 

The second shop said it's struts again.

 

I agree the struts are bad, but they aren't the cause of the problem they are only causing the issue to feel different, maybe worse, than what it is.  Although what it is I need to fix right away anyways since it's bad.

 

So, after having all those people guess and make comments and no one give me a 100% answer I went to a local repair shop that specializes in Subaru's (Ken's Repair in Garden City, ID).

 

Both my front ball joints (obviously as they showed me) are bad w/ the Driver's Side being worse than the passenger.  I'm honestly surprised Commercial Tire missed it since they caught that problem on my Durango and I had to do all 4 front ball joints on it.

 

Now, back to the issue at hand.  Although I'm planning to do the ball joints sometime today I do still need to do at least Front Struts and possibly springs with those.  

[1 Lucky Texan]

someone on one of the Forums had a very odd broken spring. The crack was such the the spring would 'marry' itself back to gether with pressure. very hard to spot where the separation was. But I don't recall waht the noise was like or how he discovered it.

 

good luck.

 

EDIT; http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/32110-help-w-broken-front-coil-spring-on-1996-legacy-outback/?hl=%2Bbroken+%2Bspring+%2Bcrack&do=findComment&comment=260019

Edited April 14, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[wtdash]

 

Ok, first thing is to me this isn't wandering.  I had an old Ford pickup as a kid that wandered, although real bad, and my '01 Durango wanders (either the steering u-joint or inner tie-rod ends but haven't figured out which yet).

 

 

 

Safety Tangent:

 

 

This year should have been in the Ball Joint Recall done on the Dakota  and Durangos from this era. If not done, don't wait.

 

TD

[lstevens76]

Safety Tangent:

 

 

This year should have been in the Ball Joint Recall done on the Dakota  and Durangos from this era. If not done, don't wait.

 

TD

 

They had already been done once prior to me doing them.  I was in a hurry so unfortunately she has Masterpro ball joints on the front.  I intend to correct that sometime this summer and replace my upper and lower control arms with Moog ones that include the ball joints.

 

Just a quick history on that Durango.  I purchased it for $750 w/ brand new tires, water pump, brand new front brakes, and a bunch of other stuff but the computer was toasted.  I picked up a computer for $200 w/ a lifetime warranty from Solus Auto in Florida.  I then discovered the shocks were bad and the rear-end pinion bearing was wining along with having bad outer tie rod ends.  I swapped the rear-end with an '03 and gave myself disc brakes on the back, put brand new shocks under it and new outer tie rod ends.  Then I found out it needed ball joints.  

 

My Durango had 180k on it when I bought it in September, it now has 198k on it (I did a bunch of towing long trips for my grandfather).  I'm into it about $2,200.  

[lstevens76]

someone on one of the Forums had a very odd broken spring. The crack was such the the spring would 'marry' itself back to gether with pressure. very hard to spot where the separation was. But I don't recall waht the noise was like or how he discovered it.

 

good luck.

 

EDIT; http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/32110-help-w-broken-front-coil-spring-on-1996-legacy-outback/?hl=%2Bbroken+%2Bspring+%2Bcrack&do=findComment&comment=260019

 

Now, back on topic:

 

I have been really wondering about that, but I think I have two or three problems and they are just causing each problem to exaggerate itself making it hard to diagnose fully.

 

The reason I'm doing the ball joints is although a failed strut can cause problems along with a failed spring that lower ball joint can cause me to lose a tire.

 

I'm asking about the ride height issue because I'm thinking a good low mileage used set is my best option for Struts/Springs at this time because I don't know if there are other problems such as broken springs.

 

I've also noticed Moog sells replacement springs through Rock Auto, but without knowing why the OBS has a higher ground clearance than other impreza's I'm not sure about this either.

[1 Lucky Texan]

95-98 also had a recall concerning spring corrosion in certain states; http://www.cars101.com/recalls.html

 

 

I still have the stock springs from my 06 WRX - low miles(swapped slightly lower SPT srinsg at about 1900 miles). but I have no idea if they are compatible with your car. shipping plus $25 .

Edited April 14, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[lstevens76]

95-98 also had a recall concerning spring corrosion in certain states; http://www.cars101.com/recalls.html

 

 

I still have the stock springs from my 06 WRX - low miles(swapped slightly lower SPT srinsg at about 1900 miles). but I have no idea if they are compatible with your car. shipping plus $25 .

 

Called the dealer, no recalls on this car (actually none, not even any fixed ones).

[1 Lucky Texan]

Called the dealer, no recalls on this car (actually none, not even any fixed ones).

ah, I was wrong - it's the legacy platform. No recall on the Impreza platform evidently.

[SnatchedHatch]

Now, back on topic:

 

I have been really wondering about that, but I think I have two or three problems and they are just causing each problem to exaggerate itself making it hard to diagnose fully.

 

The reason I'm doing the ball joints is although a failed strut can cause problems along with a failed spring that lower ball joint can cause me to lose a tire.

 

I'm asking about the ride height issue because I'm thinking a good low mileage used set is my best option for Struts/Springs at this time because I don't know if there are other problems such as broken springs.

 

I've also noticed Moog sells replacement springs through Rock Auto, but without knowing why the OBS has a higher ground clearance than other impreza's I'm not sure about this either.

 

I believe the difference in clearance on the OBS, as it is slightly higher, is just taller springs. I don't have definitive proof ...*google search*...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253616

http://articles.philly.com/1997-02-07/news/25534974_1_legacy-outback-impreza-wagon-mud

lol so not necessarily taller springs, but different spring rates for sure, and not to mention it received taller tires which alone could have made up for the difference in height

 

I get that you are on a budget, but if you're buying a used set of struts, especially with higher mileage, you should be replacing the springs and rubber, de facto elimanted a number of sources for your car ride troubles.

Ball joints, very good, fix what's broken.

Also, good job on buying proper tires, they are one of things people fail to see as vital.

 

Look for local Subie strut assembly sets, 

I chose WRX and I didn't need any spacers and didn't need to mess with my (rear) trailing arms.

This is something you will have to get into if you go with something with a much larger lift, i.e. Fozzie struts.

 

Just a little note, the WRX struts give just shy of an inch lift over stock, and the rear spring perches are higher,

so my oversize 215/60R16 tires no longer rub at any point in a drive.

[lstevens76]

I'm actually trying to find just a set of front struts with lower mileage (around 100k or so or less).  This would help me eliminate a problem so I can move on to the next problem, etc...

 

I can always go back and do them again.  The suspension on this Impreza is simple compared to my Durango.  I had that driver's side ball joint done in less than 2 hours and next time it will probably take less than an hour since I know what I need and what to do different.

 

What I'm trying to do now is get it fully functional.  This doesn't mean I need new, I just need working struts, etc...

 

And with the ball joint (driver's side) now replaced I am sure I need struts.  I no longer have the nasty steering wheel wobble, but going over bumps you can hear the springs and feel the vibration in the car.  Now that the vibration isn't immediately being taken to the steering wheel I can tell it's definitely struts.

[lstevens76]

Ok, multiple searches of a Subaru OEM Parts site later...............

 

It seems there are 4 or 5 different springs for the Impreza, but they all appear to be the same ride height.

 

At that there are 3 or 4 different struts as well, OEM, but they all appear to be the same height.  

 

I can't really figure out the different part numbers unless they were just literally different numbers for different years but the same part.

 

So this means I just need a set of front struts for a 90's to '01 Impreza.

 

There are 2 more I haven't looked at in Junkyards here so I will check them out tomorrow.

[lstevens76]

Ok, to update this I am looking at two options but running into a lot of "lack of information" or where people have tried it and never updated..............

 

Options:

 

1.)  Full set of '06 WRX Struts without springs or rear top hats for $50 w/ 60k on them.  The question I can't find the answer to is will the '96 OBS Springs fit on an '06 WRX Strut?  I know the top hats for the front will fit, and I would want to replace the rear top hats anyways but the springs is the question.

 

2.)  Full set of '98 Outback Strut Assemblies (springs and all) and I can probably get the trailing arms as well.  Don't know cost (haven't asked yet) and they have 120k on them.  

[1 Lucky Texan]

I think 60K is a lot of miles on stock struts. They probably have 'some' life left. May depend on what type of miles though.

 

I had a rear strut leaking on our Outback at about 63K miles (well, that was about when it was discovered....) I change all 4 struts and, while perhaps not 'worn out' the other 3 were noticeably weak compared to the new struts. But, her car gets 95% side street use. Highway miles are different, I'd think dirt/gravel would be the worst.

 

just a single observation.

[lstevens76]

Well I believe my OBS is over 200 (odometer is wrong because speedometer stopped working before I purchased and fixed it) on original struts.

 

So 60 OEM struts are going to be immensely better than mine. lol

[1 Lucky Texan]

Well I believe my OBS is over 200 (odometer is wrong because speedometer stopped working before I purchased and fixed it) on original struts.

 

So 60 OEM struts are going to be immensely better than mine. lol

 

OK, but what if your struts were worn-out back at 75K?

 

just saying, for the labor/hassle, I think a lot of people would go with new KYBs. But, I can understand wanting to save the money.

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I also have regretted saving money.

[Fairtax4me]

You've gotta run some ROUGH miles to wear out a set of OE Subaru struts in 75k. The originals frequently make it 200k or more before they need to be replaced.

Used low mileage is not a bad option for OE Subaru struts.

[lstevens76]

Ok, love the advice and it's always nice to see people trying to help me make the right decision.

 

But no one has yet answered the most pressing question.

 

Will a '96 OBS (gf) springs fit on an '06 WRX (GD) strut and for the fronts will the '06 top hat work with my OBS springs?