TheMeatWagon Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 hello all, i am lookin to build an rally mobile. i was thinkin an 85 or 86 gl wagon. the first major question i have is about which model of gl? Should it be turbo? i hear about this turbo traction thing a bit but i dont know what it is at all haha. also whats the difference between ea-81 and ea-82? i cant find that anywhere. For mods what i have so far is a 3" lift from ozzified, 26" tires (help on what kind??), some rally lights ( also help on what kind and where i could find em??), a sweet paint job , a rack (for snowboarding next winter), and thats about it. Any other important stuff ill need? id love to hear some of the stuff you all have done to your cars. i live in western washington so there are about 019303 places to go offroading around here so it just seemed like a fun practical car to own... thanks in advance for all your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I'm not a rally guy, but here is what I know. At least this will bump you back to the top. EA81 overhead valve engine, carbed, no timing belts I think. Most of the guys seem to like this better since there is no timing belts to worry about. EA82 overhead cam engine, carbed ( I think ) and SPFI, and MPFI models. timing belts of course, along with the problem of cylinder head cracking between the valve seats. This is typical though, and usually causes little problems. Seems to me if your rallying, you ought to have turbo. Welcome to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Well I am a little confused by your post, you first mention rally, and then start talking about lift kits, 26 inch tires and so on. Rally and off-roading are two different things, for rally you will not need a lift kit and you definatly don't want 26 " tires, the lower center of gravity is crucial for rally racing. If I were you I would ask yourself whether you want to haul rump roast around on logging roads, or drive your car on trails with rocks, logs, bogs, and countess other obstacles. once you figure that out you can decide what modifications you want. btw all the mods you listed would be perfect for offroad, except I would go for an EA-81 and no turbo. anyways welcome to the club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subawoohoo Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 yes, i was confused as well. it all depends on what you want. if you want a log hoppin, rock stompin, go anywhere rig, a lift, larger tires, blah blah blah ,would be excellent. but for rally, a lift would be odd and ive heard that they dont allow lifted rigs to even run. that is if you are talking about a real rallyx tournament. to me it sounds like you want a off road 4x4 vehicle. rally... turbo-good lift-bad giant tires-bad free flowing exhaust good freed up intake...good 4x4 orv... turbo-bad (they create power in upper rpms, whereas with 4wdriving, you want a "grunt" type vehicle that makes torque in lower rpms.) lift..good giant tires...good. free flowing exhaust good. if this is your case, any turbo model would not be a good choice. for rally imo, it would be. a wagon is a fun roomy vehicle that is good to romp arround with in the mud, and to 4wd in. but imo, for a rally car, it seems a bit too heafty to be very nimble or quick. hatch good rally or 4wd orv car. coupe. good rally car. not so good 4wd. sedan, good rally, good 4wd. brat. good rally, good 4wd. a subaru with all the other normal mods. intake, exhaust, etc... would be a great car either way. and btw, ea81s are less hasstle to deal with if your not mechanically inclined. ea82s are great engines but have a few problems. timing belts to worry about, headgaskets are a problem generally, cracked heads (not usually a problem.) and oil leaks, "ohhhh the leaking!!!!!" thats all i have time to think of right now, but a little searching through the archives and you will turn up with this question and any others you might have fully answered. a lot of this is basically my opinions, so be sure take other "counsel as well." welcome, and happy rallying or 4wding. which ever you do. tyler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 hello again, yeah sorry about the confusion i was a little confused as well haha... me and my friend were talkin on the phone at the time and were talkin about both... I do not want a rally mobile but i do want an offroader... so for this i need: a mid 1980's gl wagon NON TURBO (scannin posts here and ebay and autotrader etc etc)(Edit: ehh i keep hearing about gl-10?? what is the difference on these and the regular gl's? which is better for offroadin?) 3" lift (ozzified is best right??) 26" tires (dunno brand or price yet?) 15" pugs??(heard a bit about these but dont know if i need for sure or where to get em) brush guard (dunno where to get?) a rack (dunno where to get?) rally lights (dunno where to get?) sweet spray paint job haha Custom roll cage built in my shop class i know im forgettin some stuff but bare with me haha i have no idea where to find a lot of this so some help would be appreciated... also any other ideas on buildin this OFFROAD (lol) machine would be appreciated. Sorry if some of these questions are redundant to what others have asked i have been scanning old posts to see if i could find some answers to my questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subawoohoo Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 gl10s are awsome wagons, they have the ea82t engine in them. i absoulutely fell in love with mine. HOWEVER they are not good off roaders for mainly two reasons. one, they are turbo, i believe all of them, and two they are FULLY loaded. power moonroof, ps, pwd, pdl, and a whole heap more of electronic doodads. = very hefty. If you dont want to do the swap, look for a wagon with a dual range tranny. depending on your off roading excursions, its a must have. ozzified is the only lift maker i can think of right now, i think theres one more. but i have heard nothing but good things about them. if you have the wrenching abilities and resources you can make your own. pugs, are pugeot (spelled right??) rims. they have the same bolt patterns as subarus and come in 14 and 15 inch rims and sometimes as nice lookin alloys. you can also do the toyota 6 lug conversion which allows you a very nice selection of off road rims and tires. almost any thing you could ever want or need. do a search for it, i think it can be found at subarubrat.com. btw its a very easy mod. p.s you could also redrill the holes on toy rims and not mess with your hubs. i dont believe a brush guard or rack is made for our cars, but dont quote me on this, all the ones you see on members rides have been made by themselves. i believe someone out there makes safari racks and brush guards that could probably help you out. REAL rally lights are not available to us i dont believe, (but would be sooooo coool.) but a trip to a local checker, autozone etc... and you could pick up some kc, or other brand 6" (about) off road lights. if your going to be a hardcore off roader, an lsd, or welded rear diff. is a must. again just search as much as you can and a lot of the info can be found in the archives. the members here will be more than welcome to help you out. have fun, tyler j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 awesome man thanks for the help with all that it really helps a ton. Like i said i am scanning the archives tryin to find stuff so i dont ask TOOOO many redundant silly questions. if your going to be a hardcore off roader, an lsd, or welded rear diff. is a must. Could anyone help me a lil more with this quote above?? what is he talkin about exactly. Sorry i am still a COMPLETE beginner to this and not to smart when it comes to cars but thats part of the purpose to all this is to learn more about what im doin here. haha thanks again everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench Princess Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 For starters, I don't reccomend an EA82 for a four wheeling car for a beginner because of their tendancy to overheat and crack heads. Four wheeling tends to heat up the car pretty good sometimes and if you are just starting out in this kind of thing, EA81 is the only logical choice for you. This of course is just my opinion though, either EA81s or EA82s are good. I personally like EA81s better because of how much easier they are to work on. LSD means limited slip differential and I am not sure exactly about how all of that works but I do know that everyone says it's a must (or a welded diff of course). Anyway, that's my two cents worth, hope it helps. By the way, I don't remember if anyone explained this (it's probably obvious though) but EA81s are the earlier models (80 through 85 I think) and EA82s are after that so the car you were talking about getting should be an EA82 since it is an 86. I don't know if that helps at all but I thought I would add it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 From the sounds of it, and your other posts, it seems like you want to do more off-roading then Rally'n. Dont worry, cause I called it rally'n too back in the day, no one ever knew what I was talking about either Logging roads are alot of fun, and Subaru's seem to love them. Ditto on the snowboarding too. With a 3" lift and 26" tires, you'd be setup to run almost any terrain... and forget resorts because in the winter you'll just drive up the mountain The EA81 is alot more reliable for off-road use, and will most likely take the abuse more than a EA82. EA82's are great for power and comfort, and if you were rally'n that maybe the route, but for off-road use and a 2nd off-road car you cant beat a EA81 (and they're a dime a dozen these days). With my rig, I did alot of off-roading before the lift and tires, and pre-beatup my car. I chose the 3/3 lift from PK and 26" Cooper Discoverer's. They were great for the price, and along with the Alloy 14" Peugeot rims they dont bog down the EA81 that much. Dont get me wrong, these car's werent meant to run large tires, and you feel it on the freeway... but at 7mph off-road they work great. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Yeah an 85 wagon is what i am thinkin about now...although the 86 wagon this one guy is selling looks very nice. I think the ea-81 would be a much better choice judging by what you guys say. So a 1985 non turbo wagon with an ea-81 engine sexy car. haha. wow im so pumped up for this car it should be a lot of fun. I found a guy through another post who does brushguards and racks that are exactly what i need although i still dont know prices. Should be one helluva fun car. Thanks for all the input guys you really are helpin me a TON:grin: Edit: damn subarujunkie your 84 wagon is exactly what im tryin to build. 3 inch lift with the rack and brushguard im lookin at. Looks like one helluva nice one. I was thinkin about goin 15" pugs on 26" tires? does this sound okay or what would you guys suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 85 wagon would have an EA82. Unless you swap it out..... if you are looking for an EA81 wagon, then you want an 80-84. But the 80/81 4WD's have EA71's, so really you want an 82-84 4WD GL. 82 is the best year because the tranny has lower 3rd and 4th gearing - helps with the big tires. Also - there's a LOT more to it than just slapping a bunch of parts on the rig and trying to climb trees. You WILL break stuff if you off-road with any of the clubs around up there. And you WILL have to at least be willing to learn to fix these problems yourself. A good selection of hand tools, and a few specialty tools are a must for your rig. Also a least one full size spare - prefereably two. A tow strap, a jack, and a few other things as well Certain parts on the rig can use improvement - the diff hanger comes to mind, as well as the front skid plate. I've even seen bent front control arms because there's part of the arm that isn't reinforced like it should be. You should always carry at least one spare front axle, and if you have a welded rear diff, a spare rear axle, and spare stub axles are excelent ideas as well. If you break any of these parts and do not have spares or the tools to fix it, your looking at an expensive tow bill possibly. Although I have always been lucky enough to have friends around that pulled me out, or loaned me parts..... it's stil wise to try and be prepared. Oh - and don't worry about it too much, because you will almost always forget something anyway. Take a look at my wagon over at: www.atlas4x4.com GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 jeeez i still have so much to learn haha. Half that stuff didnt make a whole lotta sense although i see i need an 82-84 and sounds like 82 is the best plan so ill look for one of those i guess. Thats a lotta spare stuff. The tires i can manage but all the axles and whatnot... where do i get all that stuff? I need to find a guide somewhere all nice and neatly laid out that tells me what to do but i guess where would be the fun in that . And as far as being willing.... i am so much more then willing to learn all i need to know. I think this stuff is so sweet i wish i could learn it all tonight. Enogh of the silly rice burners tryin to go 185 on the freeway, i say bring on the offroad. Just need someone to teach me thanks for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 You can buy axles brand new - which is what I have on my rig right now. But for spares I pull axles from the junk yard. These are just to get me home if I do happen to break one. My new axles (autozone, GCK brand) are lifetime warranteed and I get a new one if I break it (haven't broke a front yet, but I've busted 5 rears with the welded diff....). New GCK's are $90 each - Junk Yards charge around $25 for an axle generally - but there's also your time to pull it..... One thing is for SURE - you will get VERY, VERY good at changing axles. Subaru's of our vintage eat them like candy. That's why I've opted for the lifetime NEW axles - especially since I've had REALLY, REALLY bad luck with remanufactured units. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 haha man looks like i got some learning to do. Okay 2 questions and both may sound very stupid but ignore my ignorance and pretend you are teachin a 5 year old. Im only 15 and am still VERY new to this as i have said before. So the first is what all would i need to go about changing an axle? The 2nd is how would i go about getting the welded rear differential? (ive heard many people speak highly so it sounds like a good idea) Oh and one more haha sorry i have 3. Where could i find a custom skid plate like that one you have on yours? I am watching movies on atlas4x4... looks like one helluva good time man. Thanks again and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Yeah - we have better movies on the way - if Ian ever gets them edited.... For front axle removal - check out this famous post by Ed: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2576&highlight=edrach+axle Basically you need a 36mm socket, a big breaker bar, a 3/16" pin punch, hammer (ball peen works well), 2 lb sledge hammer and block of wood (for removal), and some washers and screwdrivers for installation. A torque wrench is good to have for tightening the castle nut, but not absolutely needed. Also a general selection of hand tools (sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers etc) is needed to effect the removal / installation. Welded rear diff.... well that's usually done by someone with a welder, so unless you have one, or access to one, you will need to find someone with a welder to do it. Diff removal is pretty simple, and it's basically only labor to weld it up. There's no parts involved besides a bit of oil to fill it up when you install it. Diff welding is pretty simple if you follow a couple rules. When the time comes for you to do it, ask me and I'll go into details. If done wrong the welds can break and cause all manner of problems. The skid plate on my rig is solid 1/8" plate steel, and was made by a fellow ATLAS member - Ian. His board name is Bugaru around here. You should see *his* skid plate. Makes mine look pretty weak by comparison. His is hooked into the from bumper that he made, and very solid. Actually both of ours are TOO solid, as they have bent our engine cross-members. We are going to have to reinforce those as well at some point. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Yeah the movies you have a pretty cool lookin too.. itd be cool to see some more. I have access to a welder and am pretty good with one but wouldnt trust myself enough to do a job like this i dont think. Im pretty sure though that i could find someone to help me out. haha i saw your friends skid plate and it looks pretty beefy. I need to find someone to make one or teach me to make one when i get my car. Looks like it would come in handy. Thanks for the stuff about axle changing too looks pretty detailed i shouldnt have to much trouble now. Thanks again and i think im goin to bed so i dont know that youll hear from me again if you post tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 You shouldnt need to worry about a welded rear diff or LSD for a while. I would focus on saving some $$$ to put into your rig 1st. You should keep an eye out for any Subaru between the years 1981 and 1984. Your choices include Wagon, Hatchback, Brat and even Sedan. If its a GL you are almost sure to have the 1.8 liter EA81. Anything 85+ will have a EA82 and will have a totally different body style. You also want to look for Dual Range 4 Wheel Drive, which will have 4hi and 4lo. You should take a long drive someday and search neigborhoods and old parking lots for parked cars for sale. In washington it shouldnt take you long to find a reliable Subaru. Going with 15" tires might not be best if your only running 26" tires. My tires measure 26.1" and i couldnt imagine off-roading with any less sidewall than what I have right now. 15" rims are best suited for larger tires above 28" in my opnion. My tires also ran aprox $80ea which was a very good deal, and now have over 2500miles on them from 2 road trips and plenty of off-road trips. Here's the tire I chose: http://www.coopertire.com/us/en/ProductDetails.asp?ProdType=LtTruck&id=28 I searched their webpage for local dealers and started calling them one by one. I was able to find a tire shop that had a set of 205/75R14's laying around. Couldnt beat it -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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