jono Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) he means metal tank rads no better than plastic tanked rads - watch for the edit recovery rad caps say so, and have an extra rubber seal to ensure as everything cools down to ambient, any coolant that expanded out to reservoir will suck back into rad and stay sealed. Air leaks in system may cause this not to happen as efficiently. Genuine from Subaru, thermostats have the factory size hole for water flow, after market have smaller, unles you order or specify a higher flow thermostat costs more, but same size as genuine. And, if you have not had the innards of the cores cleaned out you could be wasting yours and our time and words. A semi blocked to blocked heater circuit can also cause overheating issues, unless there is some bypass between those two hoses entering the firewall in anything beyond EA81 that had heater taps and bypasses I think © on jono's bs Edited June 9, 2015 by jono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 A few things I thought of: There were some el cheapo water pumps around that have a stamped sheet metal impeller. what you want is the ones with a nice cast impeller. Better pumping at low RPMs. Water is one of the most effective molecules to move heat from one place to another. Anything mixed in solution with it reduces the ability to move heat. I have run EA82s with straight water sometimes [like when I had a pinhole blown head gasket, or the one with a cracked head] The cost of loosing the antifreeze would have been nuts. I ran them most of a spring & summer. No ill effects. The freeze protection and boil over protection are separate from the capacity to move heat from one place to another. Those 2 extreme conditions are not coming into play with your problem. All metal radiators are not about better cooling, they are about reliability. 2 row radiators can move more BTUs from the coolant to the air. I have used them since my first EA82. The common way to find them was to get the radiator for an EA82 turbo. The last time I looked, it was quite a project to find one. So custom may be the only way now? Running with the temp gauge that far above normal would make me nervous for sure. I have no preference between Stant and OEM thermostats. I've had no problem with either one, except I usually replace them after an overheat due to coolant loss. Or just general unknown condition. I recently tested about 6 random thermostats I had laying around from various engines I have. I used my heat gun and a meat thermometer to monitor what was going on temperature wise. They all opened impressively similarly, except a couple that seemed slow / sticky, which I no longer have.Do the hose squeeze test before you start the car. Notice if the air / gurgle / giggle pin sound changes. Do this for several drive cycles. Look at the seals on the radiator cap. Make sure they are intact, and soft enough to seal. I have been running my 2 EA82 wagons with zero pressure caps for the last year or so. This may not be a good idea where you have triple digit temperatures however. I had one radiator years ago, that had corroded so bad from the outside, that the thin fins were detached from the tubes, but still in place. This causes 2 problems - one is the reduced effectiveness at removing the heat. The other is the rectangular cross section of the tubes have much lower mechanical support, so when the system pressurizes, they try to deform to round , and after enough cycles of this, they work harden where they flex, and crack. To check for water flow, cap the ports. Fill the radiator with water. Stand on end, so one main port is top, the other is bottom as best as possible. The top port can stay open. Pop the bottom port open. The water should gush out right quick. Best to compare a known good to an unknown if you don't have experience.. Running air through a radiator won't tell you anything unless you can get to big numbers of CFM, and can compare a known good. Pressure beyond 15 PSI only adds danger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman2 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Is the fixed fan a clutch style fan? The clutch could be bad. Do you have the fan shrouds that are for the fans? Shrouds allow air to be pulled across the whole radiator. The higher ratio of water as posted above the better ability to remove heat. Antifreeze is not coolant, it is antifreeze. You need some to combat corrosion. I would want the electric fan hooked to a thermo switch. There is no need to run it if at anytime it is not needed. A proper switch will cut it on in plenty of time to combat high temperatures. If you have a fixed fan, no clutch, and an electric fan running all the time could they possibly be preventing good air flow at highway speeds? Just wondering out loud on that one. I doubt too many fans would ever move the amount of air across your radiator that 55-60 mph would move. A lower temperature thermostat may help offset the climb to higher temperatures though I am not sure. I have run a lower 180 degree thermostat in my 87 Brat since the first time I ever changed it. That could well be over 15 years, since I have owned this Brat nearly 18 years. Going up in viscosity on your oil will remove less heat as thinner oil typical removes more internal heat. Though that is splitting hairs. Is it possible that your temperature gauge is not accurate? I would want it rechecked with an accurate gauge. Specially since your are not in the red. An infrared heat temperature gun could read the outside the core of your radiator just for a check. When I fill a Subaru cooling system I like to have the front end raised on jack stands or such. Helps eliminate air trapped in the cooling system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two85s Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I have (2) extra stock EA82 radiators that came off parts cars. I stuffed rags in the openings and have had them for years now. I don't know how to tell the difference between 1-2 row, but these are factory stock from 1985's wagons. 1) was a MPFI FWD I am pretty sure, and 2) GL10 FWD. Also have a bunch of other parts too....and I need to get the stuff cleaned out and gone. I will clean up and organize it somewhat and put a post in the parts for sale/ trade section soon. But if I can help you with a radiator....let me know. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 ... I don't know how to tell the difference between 1-2 row ... Double Row Radiators has a Beefier core than Single Row Radiators. Look at them sideways... ... seems that the only choices are toyota prius electric dual radiator fans (Loyale 2.7 Turbo) wrote about it in a thread ... im confused ... Yes, you're Confused, this time because you did Not read that thread completely. No, the Prius twin fans was Never used, it was there for measurement and Comparison purposes only; I used an Aftermarket slim fan, please re-check said thread for complete information regarding the Fans and also the Lower temp Thermoswitch, but this time, take your time for Reading Completely, because there I also explained the Fan Clutch: ~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/125754-easy-guide-on-five-steps-to-twin-electric-fans-swap/ ...This is when my cooling system is not so happy, and the needle was actually alittle higher ... ... That is where the Auxiliary Electric fan, must Kick on, in the EA82's that came with a Mechanical Fan / Electric Fan Arrangement... If that Subaru were mine, I would be Sure that there is no Headgasket issue, then I would thrown the Mechanical Fan and place a Good slim Aftermarket electric Fan there, and change the Single row Radiator with a Dual row one, plus change the Thermoswitch with the one pointed on the above linked Writeup; all that fixed the Temperature problems on my Subie, since many years ago. Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 he means metal tank rads no better than plastic tanked rads - watch for the edit recovery rad caps say so, and have an extra rubber seal to ensure as everything cools down to ambient, any coolant that expanded out to reservoir will suck back into rad and stay sealed. Air leaks in system may cause this not to happen as efficiently. Genuine from Subaru, thermostats have the factory size hole for water flow, after market have smaller, unles you order or specify a higher flow thermostat costs more, but same size as genuine. And, if you have not had the innards of the cores cleaned out you could be wasting yours and our time and words. A semi blocked to blocked heater circuit can also cause overheating issues, unless there is some bypass between those two hoses entering the firewall in anything beyond EA81 that had heater taps and bypasses I think © on jono's bs I have had my car brand new since 1994 and at 42K mile the cheap crap plastic radiator sprung a leak (surpise, the Subaru warranty only covers it up to 40K miles). I replaced it myself, asking the radiator shop for one with metal endcaps. At 180K miles on the ODO I still have that same metal end radiator. Never had an overheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Do you ever hear gurgling when you are stopped at a light or driving? Sounds like your tummy rumbling but it is actually air bubbles in the cooling system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Good advice from the last few posts. My engine builder told me that one should stivk to the anti freeze/coolant amount as stated on the container. Too little coolant and it isnt effective, too much and it can eat away some internal metal. So read the back of the container for guidance. As they said- a proper diagnosis. In the meantime if its really hot and temps are rising stick your demister on and turn up your heater. Your heater will act like an auxillary radiator and stop your engine from boiling. Get your fan checked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 ... All metal radiators are not about better cooling, they are about reliability ... Exactly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Do you ever hear gurgling when you are stopped at a light or driving? Sounds like your tummy rumbling but it is actually air bubbles in the cooling system. Used to at a light after getting off of the highway, its gone now So i ended up changing the thermostat and antifreeze to 40/60water, my overheating issues seemed to have dissapeared, maybe there was air? or maybe it was the thermostat? i did stick the thermostat in hot water and it opened fine but whatever, im sticking with the OEM Subaru one from now on. i still have 3 questions, 1. What year or vehicles have you seen the double row radiators?? i will slowly look for one. 2. What temperature should the radiator be at? i own an infrared thermometer gun and would like to see if the temp. gauge in the dash is working okay. 3. Which one have you guys boughten of the temperature switch that goes on the radiator? a low temperature one i guess where if the needle goes above 1/4, it would kick on. i want to get that working again since the vehicle seems to be running really cool again and how to wire it up? there was rats living in my wagon when i first got it (abandoned for 4 years) and you know what they do to wires, its a mess, and i would just run new wires anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djcommie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm going to go a different direction and say there's likely a reason for the engine running hot, the effect is ineffective engine cooling, not the cause. I'd check your plugs to make sure you aren't running lean. A post MAF air leak lets in unmetered air, you may have a bad oxygen sensor or a leak in the exhuast before the sensor, or maybe even pinging/knock from that possible lean mixture, which makes the engine temperature skyrocket and the cooling system wasn't designed to absorb and radiate that head. Also, check your ignition timing, I had a Daihatsu that ran fine but really hot on the freeway and had the timing 8 degrees retarded from stock, putting it back where it belonged fixed the overheating issues completely with no other repairs. You may have an issue with something else that isn't necessarily related to the thermostat or radiator like a clogged bypass, heater core, or kinked/collapsed hose. My experience with warm running engine while cruising is a mixture or ignition timing issue. Way retarded timing does that exact thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) you may have a bad oxygen sensor or a leak in the exhuasti've posted about my oxygen sensor a while ago on a thread, that orange wire (1 wire) when i unplug it and drive around it does nothing, if i plug it in and drive it around, a whole bunch of nothing happens.. no check engine light, no difference on MPG, i still achieve 360-400miles on a full tank unplugged or not. someone on another thread said the computer goes to default mode? meaning it ignores the oxygen sensor on the exhaust and just goes by "standard" so maybe in the summer time it goes lean while the winter goes rich? thats one thing i still need to replace but no one could give me a straight answer and instead got responses as if it aint broke, don't fix it, soooo im unsure if its even working or not Edited June 10, 2015 by Subasaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If this is an ea82 spfi, unplugging the O2 sensor should cause the CEL to illuminate. I have not tested this, but it should generate a reading far enough outside of normal to throw a code. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 thanks for that DaveT, guess i gotta change my O2 sensor now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 word is that if there is no input from O2 sensor the CU will richen up the mixture for a safety point of view. Rich things up should have more a cooling effect on combustion as far as gasoline goes. You can monitor the output of the O2 sensor with a multimeter in the range between 0 and 1 Volt. Get someone to monitor the output while you drive about ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) word is that if there is no input from O2 sensor the CU will richen up the mixture for a safety point of view. Rich things up should have more a cooling effect on combustion as far as gasoline goes. You can monitor the output of the O2 sensor with a multimeter in the range between 0 and 1 Volt. Get someone to monitor the output while you drive about ? didn't know i could check with a multimeter, thank you Jono will check in a bit Edited June 10, 2015 by Subasaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) how does .149volts constant comming out of the plug sound? and .001volts comming out of the O2 sensor? i don't understand how the O2 sensor would have a volt if theres nothing plugged into it?? Edited June 10, 2015 by Subasaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 .001 volts is very small. It could be a meter error, unless you are using a high quality meter that costs well into 3 digits... I have not investigated the exact technology that makes O2 sensors work, but any 2 dissimilar metals make a thermocouple, which will produce a very low voltage when there is a temperature difference between them. Or it could be stray noise or the like. I believe the test sugested above would involve keeping the sensor connected to the ECU, and tapping in with a meter. Then driving around while someone else notes readings. You also have to run the engine up to operating temperature before the ECU uses the data from the O2 sensor to adjust the mixture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) O2 sensors acxtually produce voltage because of a catalytic reaction between the rare earth elements in the sensor when exposed to oxygen they are calibrated so that at 14.7 AFR called also Stochiometric the Volatge output matches the correct parameter (usually around 3.3 Volts) to indicate to the Engine Control Unit mixture is correct if above or below the correct voltage output then the computer goes to a different table to modify the Base Fuel injector timing figures.Timing as in the ammount of Time the Injector is held open. So the O2 sensor corrects the mixture to compensate for either richer or leaner mixture by modifying the Base Fuel Injector opening times from correction tables carefully calculated by the Factory, But bear in mind all those setting tables in the Engine Control Unit are worked out in relation to a properly functioning Factory spec engine. More explanation here. http://www.diycardoctor.com/air_fuel_ratio_sensor.htm Edited June 11, 2015 by coxy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman2 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Air is common in a Subaru cooling system and not good. If not burped or refilled with a slight raise in the frontend. That was your most likely culprit. Glad you seemed to have fixed your problem. Edited June 11, 2015 by bratman2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 1. Make sure you don't have a mouse nest between the AC radiator and the real radiator. 2. The double core radiators really work well and will likely solve your problem the easiest. 3. For even more cooling, drill a 1/4" diameter hole in your thermostat, or two. You would probably not want to run a drilled thermostat with your brand spankin new double core radiator in the winter, because you will have difficulty in getting enough heat to warm up the inside of the car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Head gaskets are easy on this engine. Has the radiator cap been replaced (sorry if its been mentioned already). Adding an external oil cooler adds capacity and cooling. Since your in Texas, do you have ac? If your AC is malfunctioning it can add heat to the cooling system Check the rad to see if it is clogged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Head gaskets are easy on this engine. Has the radiator cap been replaced (sorry if its been mentioned already). Adding an external oil cooler adds capacity and cooling. Since your in Texas, do you have ac? If your AC is malfunctioning it can add heat to the cooling system Check the rad to see if it is clogged. good to know that the headgaskets are easy to change, how often should they be changed? radiator cap has been changed to another junkyard one with 60,000miles about 3 months ago, rubber looked in very good condition and was the same vehicle i had stolen lifters (hydraulic lashers) from. one question about the cap though, it says R124 88KPA 0.9, what does that mean?? A/C works great till needle goes above half, my best friends dads main job is working on A/C and heating, plus where i get mine serviced for free. (i have the dealer added A/C KIKI DIESEL off to the right of the alternator when looking at it from the front) i don't know if its still clogged. back in march 2015 i put a hose with some pressure to one end and left it running through the radiator for 30min, then afterwards 100PSI of air through it for 30 seconds. don't know if theres still "stuff" in there or if there ever was anything in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 about the O2 sensor, i left it unplugged (by accident) while traveling to corpus christi for a 1day vacation to the beach, check engine light came on after driving constantly for 1hour, popped the hood, found the O2 sensor unplugged, plugged it back in and check engine light went away after 2min of driving, sooo O2 sensor is working fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subasaurus Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 1. Make sure you don't have a mouse nest between the AC radiator and the real radiator. 2. The double core radiators really work well and will likely solve your problem the easiest. 3. For even more cooling, drill a 1/4" diameter hole in your thermostat, or two. You would probably not want to run a drilled thermostat with your brand spankin new double core radiator in the winter, because you will have difficulty in getting enough heat to warm up the inside of the car. had 1 nest only and was inbetween the engine block and intake something (forgot the name) anyways ive removed the radiator before (3times) and cleaned up between there with a garden hose. i really want to find a double core radiator, need info on year models and trims. ive heard of the drilling before but never attempted it, actually forgot about it but since the cooling fixed itself, no need to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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