foxgap Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I took the 95 Legacy to a good Subaru shop (Weddes Auto) and had them pull the codes out of the trans cause the trans light flashes 16 times on start up. Chris said that the code in the trans history is for the Duty C. This will probably explain why the car seems like it is in FWD only most of the time. I have put the fuse in the under hood holder and there seems like no difference in the way the car runs with the fuse in or out. The question is, with the duty c being bad will the clutch pack be shot also? The trans fluid is clear but will be changed along with the filters at the same time the tail housing is removed. I always thought there was a problem with this trans because the manual trans cars we had before this first auto were always AWD animals and this one got stuck in the snow all the time. With 4 snow tires on it yet. Any help will be appreciated! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The duty C code can only be thrown by the circuit breaking, or shorting to ground, or improbably shorting to +12V. It could be the wiring from the TCU to the trans harness, or the trans harness, or the solenoid itself. Suggest checking to see if shorted to ground or at the trans harness connection at the top of the bellhousing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 I was told to OHM the duty c also to determine if it is any good before we take the housing off. 0 Ohms means no good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 So does anyone think that the clutch pack will be bad also? Car has no torque bind that I can notice. Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) A code means a diagnoised electrical problem so chances are good the clutch pack is OK. But no guarantees. 0 ohms to ground is bad, and so is infinite ohms to ground. Your meter needs to be able to read hundreds to several thousand ohms I think. Edited June 22, 2015 by CNY_Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Thanks!! Just what we need. Now I have read about the possiblity of the shaft on the clutch pack getting scored. If this has happened, and I hope not, is this a replaceable part or a bone yard find? I did check for torque bind on Sunday and found there is none. I also checked to see if I had AWD and there is none also. I stopped the car on a hill while it was raining and gave it some gas to get the front wheels turning and nothing but the front spun. Thanks again from an AUTO trans newbie, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 All the clutch pack parts are replaceable. Come to think of it, if the solenoid is open or shorted, and it does not have AWD, since the solenoid is activated to release pressure (before 2004) it will probably need something other than just the solenoid, unless the solenoid is stuck 'open' (which is a possibility). There are several simple and fairly cheap problems it could be in addition to the solenoid or wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I am hoping the solenoid is stuck open right now, I guess we will not know that until we OHM it or take it out. The shop I am taking it to wants to do as much checking as possible before he puts it on the lift and starts tearing into it. He has been starting to get more and more older Soobs and likes the challenge of solving the problems. Hence all the questions from me to you all. Dave, you say there are problems that could cause a no AWD condition, could you list a few and I can check on those also? Thanks again, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logic23 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Its easiest and cheapest to just swap the whole cone assembly. All the 95-98 autos have that part. They don't fail that often so you have good odds that a junkyard part will work and last. GET A NEW PAPER SEAL. If not it will leak Been there :( Also pay attention to the parking "paw" and its spring when dissasembling. They like to fall out. Edited June 25, 2015 by logic23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The wire to the C-Duty is very short, and had to be unplugged as you pull off the tail shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Mmmm, clutch basket could be badly grooved, clutches could be worn out, clutch basket may have fallen off the shaft, solenoid valve stuck, the spool valve it controls could be stuck or loose, the O-ring that connects from the transd side to extension case side could be bad or missing, the pipe that sends the fluid to the clutch pack could be loose and leaking, on my 03 theres a small filter screen behind the valve, if you have one somewhere (I think your valve is in the tail section? mine is on the trans proper) it could be plugged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Lots of stuff to check on!!!!! The car goes to the repair shop next week and the mechanic thanks you all already for the great points you have made. He wants to do this right the first time and not have to tie up his lift for too long. I am still hoping for something simple....... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 the most common cause of the duty C code is in fact a bad duty c solenoid, replace it and you are good to go. but there are other causes, or so i have read, such as: a stuck duty c due to dirty atf a bad TCU bad wiring the '' FWD only seems to bean indicator. usually a bad duty C will cause torque bind, not FWD. i would test to see if the mechanics of the transfer clutch are working, separate from the electronics. with both wheels on one side of the car in the air, unplug the large connector under the hood going to the trans. start the car and shift to N. rotate one wheel by hand, the other wheel should rotate the exact same . this means the wheels are ''locked'' front to rear. if they are not locked, there is a mechanical problem. could be grooves in the clutch drum, or worn out clutch plates, oe busted clutch drum, or no rear drive shaft or the valve body of the duty C could be blocked eliminating ATF flow, pressure. no pressure equals no power to the rear. the duty C is designed to bleed off, regulate ATF pressure. full pressure equals a ''locked'' torque bind situation. i would test the duty C as described above, and do 3 drain and fills of ATF, before i cracked the case and replaced the duty C. more info is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Fantastic!! will try these before cracking into the case. Going to order the Duty C on Monday and ask questions about the drum and clutches price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 We put a bottle of trans cleaner in the car last night, Friday it gets emptyed and new filters installed. Could be the fix...... More on Friday after the work is done and the Duty C is OHMed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Good day today, I guess. The fluid and filter has been changed, the pan had some stuff in it but not nearly as bad as some I have seen so that is a plus. We OHMed the Duty C and it is bad. The wire we used was the black with a yellow tracer cause this is the one that Shopsmith said was the one that went to it. They call it an AWD Seliniod. Gonna order the Duty C and when it comes in back the car goes up again to get that installed. Does anyone know if Rock Auto still sells the Soob Duty C? The last post I heard about this was 2011. Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 All the parts have been ordered from Subarupartsforyou.com. $123.44 shipped to the door. As soon as they arrive I will make the next appointment at the mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 too late i guess but i have a complete rear extension housing, clutch pack, and Duty C assembly that came from a perfectly running and driving 1996 legacy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Gary, don't get rid of it yet. We still do not know what the clutch pack looks like. If mine is a disaster I will take you up on it. I can always sell a brand new Duty C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Cross my fingers the car goes in on Wed. night for Thursday, I may have AWD Thursday night. I will let everyone know what is found and the solutions then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Gary, you have a PM. For the rest of you this is what we have found in the extension housing. The AWD viscous clutch drum is broken into two parts. Pics can be seen here exactly what mine looks like, http://mdhmotors.com/subaru-all-wheel-drive-system-failures-repair/ The Duty C is also bad and we are trying to find the wires in the harness to test the wires. According to Shop Smith the Duty C wire is black with a yellow stripe, somewhere inside it changes to red and connects to the Duty C. We think.... The wires go inside the trans on the side , is there a way to release these wires from the outside so they can be tested or replaced? Just trying to do this right the first time. Thanks All!! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 slight correction. the auto trans has a ''transfer clutch'' and duty C. the manual trans has a viscous coupling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 The wires are stuck forever in the plug that goes in/out of the trans. You can cut near the plug and splice if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Thanks Dave, Today's update!! We found the part we needed at a transmission recycler in Brooklyn NY. Shaft, Bearing and drum came to $125.00 shipped and since we are so close to NY it came overnight. It is now in the trans. I also ordered two sealing rings for the clutch side shaft from Subarupartsforyou.com, they also came overnight from Conneticut. The wireing harness has been OHM ed out and as far as we can see in perfect shape. One thing about that though, we were tracing the wrong wire earlier, black with a yellow stripe, that wire goes to the speed sensor. Oh well, live and learn. Paul is away on Saturday, so the car should be done on Monday afternoon....... Sorry about my spelling... Mark Edited July 25, 2015 by foxgap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Thanks Dave, Today's update!! We found the part we needed at a transmission recycler in Brooklyn NY. Shaft, Bearing and drum came to $125.00 shipped and since we are so close to NY it came overnight. It is now in the trans. I also ordered two sealing rings for the clutch side shaft from Subarupartsforyou.com, they also came overnight from Conneticut. The wireing harness has been OHM ed out and as far as we can see in perfect shape. One thing about that though, we were tracing the wrong wire earlier, black with a yellow stripe, that wire goes to the speed sensor. Oh well, live and learn. Paul is away on Saturday, so the car should be done on Monday afternoon....... Sorry about my spelling... Mark Have you ever heard of Harry's Upull in Hazleton and Allentown. The one in Hazleton always has dozens of Subaru's in it. http://www.wegotused.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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