theandrewgarcia Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Hey All, I am in need of some help from someone who knows their way around an older Subaru. I purchased a 1990 Subaru Legacy Wagon with only 86k miles on it from a single owner. The car is in great shape and I felt was an excellent buy. After putting a few thousand miles on it Ive noticed that the cars temperature seems to go a bit above the half way mark at times. Before say a month ago the temperature gauge lived between completely cold and mid way. I dont know if this is an indicator of a head gasket problem or if this could be the radiator. Ive heard the 2.2 4cyl 5-speed manual engines in that year dont have the head problems as much as the others do. Please help!! Edited July 1, 2015 by theandrewgarcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Welcome to USMB. Lots of good people here to help keep your Subie running strong. The 2.2 motor in your 90 model is one of the most bullet proof motors ever made. Runs forever with proper oil changes. Is very unlikely to have head gasket issues. With a 25 year old car, it may or may not have had regular antifreeze changes to the cooling system. Don't know where San Luis Obispo is located to know if antifreeze is used where you live. Still, if antifreeze is not used where you live, then some rust proofing must be added to the cooling system to prevent oxidation build up in the radiator. Take off the radiator cap, and see if you can observe any build up of crud in the radiator. If so, you may need to have the radiator cleaned out, or simply buy a new radiator. There is also a potential that you may need a new thermostat, if it is old, and not opening and closing properly. If so, buy a good thermostat, not a cheapie one with a small spring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theandrewgarcia Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 You are a master. Thanks so much for the info!! I live on the central coast of California. Rarely gets above 85 and below 45. I took a recommendation from a buddy and 'burped' the radiator. That seemed to help the problem for a week but then it started back up again. I didnt see much corrosion on the cap either. I am hoping its a thermostat and that same friend said we can change it for pretty cheap. I will change it, drive it, and report back! Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Go with an OEM thermostat and OEM coolant. Your total cost (get the pure stuff, not diluted coolant and buy 1 gallon of distilled water) shouldn't be more than $40/$50 depending on your dealer down there. It will take about an hour between the coolant drain and then changing the thermostat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Just make sure you use a Subaru OEM thermostat or a Stant "Exacstat" along with an OEM quality gasket. If you try to cheap-out you'll be sorry later. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Welcome. I'm just north of you in Santa Cruz area. If the issue is a head gasket, look in the coolant overflow/reservoir the next time it's running hot. If there are bubbles coming out of the hose, it's head gasket leakage. If not, it doesn't entirely rule it out, but is far less likely. Thermostat is a good place to start. Radiator is not a bad idea either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georg Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hi there, On my 1990 legacy 1.8 it was the coolant temp sensor causing the gauge to do funny things years ago. Hope you will find the problem. Cheers Georg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 at 25 years old it is long overdue for a timing belt service (regardless of mileage, but at 86K it would be due soon anyway)... Myself, I would do a complete timing service, including new belt, pulleys, waterpump, thermostat, & possibly (probably) radiator hoses. I would also go through it and replace all the vacuum lines and the accessory belts - all of this just because of the age. Another possible is radiator cap... anything rubber will dry out and/or crack with age. Complete timing kits with just about everything you need can be purchased online for under $200. Vacuum line is also cheap. Do NOT skimp on the thermostat - it does need to be either OEM or the Exacstat thermostat by Stant. Cheap thermostats usually cause more problems than they solve on Subarus. Good quality antifreeze/coolant (it does more than just keep the system from freezing/boiling over) is fine, it does not need to be purchased from a dealer I own a 1990 Legacy LS wagon, and loved it. Great car. Drove it for 7 years & she has 236,000 on the clock (had just over 152K when I got her). Sadly, I live in snow/salt country and rust has gotten the better of it, so it has been retired, but still ran beautifully... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I was thinking the same thing as Heartless that if it hasn't been done, it's overdue for a timing belt kit. And by mileage it is actually 26k over due. Heartless is probably thinking of the 2.5L and the Phase 2 2.2L that are at 105K. That engine is supposed to have it done every 60k. This kit includes an Aisin water pump + a tensioner and it's what I put on my '96 OBS: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NLLH74C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 No matter what you paid for the car, this is something that is considered routine maintenance and doing so ensures you get another 60k out of those components. When you figure that in, it basically pays for itself. Most Subaru, Honda, and Toyota cars (along with many other manufacturers) use Timing Belts so it isn't a Subaru specific thing, nor is the recommendation to change it. And the timing belt w/ components can be done by a DIY'er in about 4 to 5 hours. It isn't a real difficult job, just time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theandrewgarcia Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hey guys, Just ordered a new OEM thermostat and I will replace it within the next few days. One thing I did notice, and this may be completely normal, is that whenever the car gets warm if I turn on the heater the temperature drops significantly. Ive heard this is normal for cars that get a little too hot but does this rule out or make a case for any exact problem? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 No, that is to be expected. Turning the heater on basically adds a second radiator. Coolant flows into the heater core and the blower motor pushes that heat into the cabin of the car cooling down that heater core, and thus cooling the coolant and the engine. On an EJ22 with only 86k and well taken care of the last thing I would suspect is a head gasket. That being said, if the water pump and a coolant change has never been done the culprit could be both of those. And if your going in far enough to do the water pump your best to do the whole timing kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Wouldn't hurt to have the cooling system flushed out before you change the T stat.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Hey guys, Just ordered a new OEM thermostat and I will replace it within the next few days. One thing I did notice, and this may be completely normal, is that whenever the car gets warm if I turn on the heater the temperature drops significantly. Ive heard this is normal for cars that get a little too hot but does this rule out or make a case for any exact problem? Thanks! that is a good sign that your radiator is clogged and is not cooling correctly. you should replace the radiator, these cars are sensitive to being overheated and its best to be preventative about cooling system problems. if it where me i would do the timing belt, water pump, radiator, thermostat (OEM only), and of course new extended life antifreeze. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) that is a good sign that your radiator is clogged and is not cooling correctly. you should replace the radiator, these cars are sensitive to being overheated and its best to be preventative about cooling system problems. if it where me i would do the timing belt, water pump, radiator, thermostat (OEM only), and of course new extended life antifreeze. Actually, that doesn't mean that. It could mean a failing thermostat. It could mean a failing water pump. It could mean old bad coolant on a hot day................... What it does mean is that the heater core is unclogged and allowing additional circulation and removal of heat. Edited July 2, 2015 by lstevens76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Actually, that doesn't mean that. It could mean a failing thermostat. It could mean a failing water pump. It could mean old bad coolant on a hot day................... actually it is the case 98.9% of the time and that is why i recommended a full service of the cooling system , including replacement of a 25 year old radiator that is more than likely clogged with silicate. Edited July 2, 2015 by mikaleda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) actually it is the case 98.9% of the time and that is why i recommended a full service of the cooling system , including replacement of a 25 year old radiator that is more than likely clogged with silicate. I'm not a "certified" mechanic yet (working on it) but I grew up around cars and mechanics and I've worked on at least 4 or 5 dozen cars in my life that have had slight overheating problems. Out of those only 2 turned out to be radiators. I'm not discounting the possibility but on a car in good condition at 86,000 miles I would be more likely to lean towards a sticky thermostat, malfunctioning fan, or a failing water pump. Based on what the OP said I think starting with the thermostat is a good point, but I also agree with others (and as I mentioned) that if the timing belt hasn't been done then it needs done which would include replacing the water pump. It's very possible the water pump is showing it's age in this scenario as well. But, so the OP understands this, what we are all saying is it is either a flow issue with the coolant or it is a air flow issue and the radiator isn't getting enough airflow to cool down properly. Which raises a question I don't think anyone has asked, but have you checked to see how many bugs, dirt, debris, etc... are stuck to the front of the condenser (if it has AC) or are in between the Radiator and Condenser? Edited July 2, 2015 by lstevens76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thermostat definitely. But Mikaleda has a point: Subaru radiators have a tendency to corrode from the inside>out. If that radiator is the original, it's definitely due to be thoroughly checked out. Do the other maintenance items need to be addressed? Yes. Way past time for all that. BUT, the original question was about the temperature issues. Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theandrewgarcia Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thank you all again so much for your help in this! The OEM Thermostat is on its way! Other issues that may or may not narrow the problem: A/C - the air conditioner is not working. Sometimes air will blow on a high setting, but it generally starts blowing out of the window vents and then sometimes will blow from the normal sockets on the dash. Dont know why this is. It definitely makes a compression-like noise whenever I turn the AC on but no cold air. About once a week when I start the car (either completely cold or warm) the idle will be extremely low and give a sputter-like sensation that feels like its going to die. Once the car warms its totally fine. Aside from that everything seems to be fine. The past couple of days the cars temperature has much more of a tendency now to warm up much more quickly. I should have rushed shipped that thermostat. Thanks again everyone!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm not a "certified" mechanic yet (working on it) but I grew up around cars and mechanics and I've worked on at least 4 or 5 dozen cars in my life that have had slight overheating problems. I'm not a certified mechanic either, but I do own and run a successful mobile repair bussiness. I would normally agree with you, but under the circumstances I figured the op should probably spend the $100 on a new radiator to save a highly expensive head gasket job later down the road. Its realatively cheap to do a full cooling system and timing belt service. Its good also just for the peace of mind. This is just my 2 cents though, the op can do what they feel like 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) On a 25 year old car you can probably count the thermostat, fresh coolant (anything green) and radiator as preventative maintenance if it's original. If this cooling issue originated before you bought the car, the previous owner may have tried one of the "fix in a can" products which are awful for gunking up radiators and thermostats. Water pump is possible but not nearly as likely given the symptoms described. They are a pretty rare fail point. Head gaskets also unlikely unless the motor was overheated. Look for coolant useage/burning and look inside the overflow/coolant reservoir with the engine running for bubbles. Doubtful but worth a peek Edited July 3, 2015 by AdventureSubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm not a certified mechanic either, but I do own and run a successful mobile repair bussiness. I would normally agree with you, but under the circumstances I figured the op should probably spend the $100 on a new radiator to save a highly expensive head gasket job later down the road. Its realatively cheap to do a full cooling system and timing belt service. Its good also just for the peace of mind. This is just my 2 cents though, the op can do what they feel like If he wasn't being pro-active, knows to turn the defroster on, etc... I would agree. But I doubt he will ever let it get hot enough to blow a head gasket before resolving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) I was thinking the same thing as Heartless that if it hasn't been done, it's overdue for a timing belt kit. And by mileage it is actually 26k over due. Heartless is probably thinking of the 2.5L and the Phase 2 2.2L that are at 105K. That engine is supposed to have it done every 60k. This kit includes an Aisin water pump + a tensioner and it's what I put on my '96 OBS: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NLLH74C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 No matter what you paid for the car, this is something that is considered routine maintenance and doing so ensures you get another 60k out of those components. When you figure that in, it basically pays for itself. Most Subaru, Honda, and Toyota cars (along with many other manufacturers) use Timing Belts so it isn't a Subaru specific thing, nor is the recommendation to change it. And the timing belt w/ components can be done by a DIY'er in about 4 to 5 hours. It isn't a real difficult job, just time consuming. you are correct that I was thinking of the 105K mile interval, but not the 2.5 engine... most new belts sold now are of the 105K mile type, even for the shorter interval engines... regardless, at 25 yrs old, it really should be done, just as routine maintenance, and peace of mind. When I get a "new" (to me) Subaru, especially when maintenance history is unknown or dubious... this is one of the very first things I will do with it - a complete timing job - which also means coolant change, radiator hoses (the 95 was very close to bursting a hose when I got it. could actually see daylight thru it in one spot) and all new vacuum lines. More often than not, I will do plugs & wires, an oil change, fuel and air filters, too, just because. Radiator gets a good inspection & a rinse during the timing job and, if needed, will get replaced. The only Subaru to live at this house that hasnt had a timing job within a month of arrival is the other half's 2004 LL Bean Outback, and that has the H6 & a timing chain... Edited July 3, 2015 by heartless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 not for nothing,, but if he has to burp the system more than once.. and he has seen the temperature climb ,, this could be head gasket,, Just a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theandrewgarcia Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Update: Yesterday I replaced the thermostat and changed out a majority of the coolant (didnt flush but about a gallon drained out). After installing the new one, burping the system, and then driving it (normal to harder than usual) the new thermostat works excellent! I am pretty sure this is what the problem was. My temp would normally fluctuate a decent amount when I drove but after drive it a couple times it now doesnt move. She stays a little below the half way marker. I cant tell you how happy I am that it was only this. Thanks a million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 You should still find out when the timing belt and components were last changed so you know if they need done or not. It's a lot easier to do them before it snaps while your going down the interstate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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