richfoub Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Just bought a '95 Legacy, first drive today and it overheats. Gauge went all the way up, heater on full was only blowing cold air. Nursed it home. Top radiator hose was hot, bottom hose was cold, overflow tank, which had been half full was now overflowing. Got online searching for an answer, as we all do. Have read many posts, some saying head gasket, some saying thermostat, some saying radiator cap, some saying air in the system. Car has 275,000kms on the clock, had timing belt and water pump replacement about 50,000kms ago. Did some poking around under the hood in between online answer searching. Took it out again for a quick lap of our neighbourhood to get the temp up again, this time keep it idling at home while looking into overflow bottle. There were some big bubbles coming up randomly in the coolant, does this point to head gasket problems. Smelt the exhaust, might have a bit of sweetness to it indicating coolant. Might pull the plugs to see what they look like. From what I can deduce right now basically the coolant in the engine gets hot, this expanding fluid is pushed out the top hose into the radiator and then into the overflow bottle. The thermostat is meant to open once the engine reaches a certain temperature so the coolant can then flow through the radiator to get cooled. So maybe if the thermostat is not opening this could be causing the overheating? Also if coolant is not flowing through the heater core because the thermostat is hindering flow this could explain the no heat situation inside the car? Anyone like to ad their two cents worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Usually no heat means low coolant. Top off the radiator and fill the reservoir and idle it in the driveway. Squeeze the upper rad hose back and forth to help work out air bubbles. If it starts to overheat, turn it off, cool it down and repeat the process. If full for sure, you could have a blockage or stuck thermostat. Replace thermostat with Subaru OEM and see what happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Bubbles in the overflow only indicate head gasket leakage if you are sure that the system is full. Exhaust gasses get forced into the coolant creating the bubbles. If the coolant is low, you get the bubbles anyway because there is air in the system. Top it all off and check for leaks. EJ22s do not have head gasket issues often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golucky66 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Considering you have no heat in the car, i would start with a thermostat because head gasket or not, if the bottom hose is cold, its stuck. After you fix that, make sure you correctly purge all air from the system. No heat in the car is very commonly because of bubbles in the cooling system. Start with the basics. Look at easy stuff first, and replace cheap stuff first (unless some how you know its head-gasket, like an obvious leak from it) As AdventureSubaru said, get a OEM thermostat. Or at least a good one. Don't put a 5$ stat in there from auto zone because "that's what the guys said" Subaru's are stupid picky about parts sometimes. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfoub Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thanks for the info, will stop in at the local Subaru dealer tomorrow for a new thermostat and keep my fingers crossed. I found a couple of good how to's on purging air from the system after re-filling, so will make sure I follow those to the T. I already topped it right up and massaged the top hose to get any bubbles from the system before my last test drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailcutr Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Sounds like the thermostat is stuck closed. Those are the symptoms. If its stuck open it won't ever get very hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfoub Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 So I got a new thermostat and gasket from the Subaru dealer today on my way home from work. Got a chance this evening to go out and fit it to the car. First I have to drain the coolant from the engine/radiator. I open the tap on the passenger side at the bottom of the radiator and about 1/4 cup of fluid trickles out, even after I removed the radiator cap. Hmmm, I'm sure I should get a bit more than that. So then I'm thinking the reason I have no heat and the engine is overheating is there is probably bugger all coolant in the system. So I fill (like I've read) the engine through the top radiator hose. After a while fluid starts trickling out of the top radiator connection which means the thermostat must be open. I thought it was normally in the closed position and only opened when the engine reached a certain temperature and needed cooling by the radiator? Or am I wrong? Then I re-connected the top hose, put some more coolant where the radiator cap goes and squeezed the top hose to release any bubbles. After I couldn't get any more coolant in the radiator I started the car with the heater on and fan on lowest setting. Yay! the heater is working. Squeezed the top hose a bit more and put the radiator cap back on. Took the car for a decent spin round the block, including a few good accelerations, temp gauge sat at about 1/3 and didn't budge. Popped the hood when I got home, there was probably about 1 cup more fluid in the overflow reservoir than when I left. Both radiator hoses are now warm. I read somewhere that Subaru head gaskets normally go bad by letting coolant into the combustion chamber versus the oil sump, if so would pulling the spark plugs show me that 1 or more plugs should be lovely and clean while the others show normal combustion characteristics? Also the heat in the cabin was toasty but not quite as hot as I would have thought. Maybe someone has removed the thermostat? Should I drain the system again and see if that indeed is the case? Richard, in Vernon BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) If its a head gasket,, what happens is the exhaust pushes past the gasket and into the water jacket. It then pushes water out into the overflow bottle and eventually out of the overflow. After you are sure your system is full of water/coolant, monitor the bottle. I had a leak in my radiator recently.. lost alot of coolant. Over heated. So i if you were low enough on coolant that it overheated and had no heat, It could be you have a leak also. Edited November 19, 2015 by xdeadeye1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailcutr Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Thermostats should stay closed until temp. You can test them in a pot of boiling water or just replace it and be done. Its an easy job and cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I read somewhere that Subaru head gaskets normally go bad by letting coolant into the combustion chamber versus the oil sump, if so would pulling the spark plugs show me that 1 or more plugs should be lovely and clean while the others show normal combustion characteristics? The EJ22 in your '95 is generally pretty bulletproof (considered by many here to be one of Subaru's better/best engines). The HGs are pretty bad on the EJ25. Not that the EJ22 can't ever have bad HGs, but it is much less common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Check the coolant before every drive for a while at least. After a handful of drive cool cycles, it should stabilize. Check 2 ways - squeeze the upper hose sharply, hear jiggle pin in the thermostat, also listen for gurgling of air. check the level in the overflow bottle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfoub Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 It must be the head gasket. We just took a short drive around town with a few stops. The temperature gauge went up and down, more up than down and when we got home the overflow reservoir was overflowing onto the ground. I found this explanation on another posting about about overheating. "If its a head gasket, what happens is the exhaust pushes past the gasket and into the water jacket. It then pushes water out into the overflow bottle and eventually out of the overflow" Looks like I'll have to fix it, as the guy we bought it off is surely not going to take it back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 If you are sure that the air is worked out of the system and that the radiator is not blocked - run it until it is warm. Look inside the coolant reservoir and look for bubbles coming out the hose. If no bubbles, rev the motor up and look. If you have bubbles, it's the head gaskets. Head gaskets on the EJ22 are super simple. Felpro gaskets are about $25 each and are the same as Subaru OEM (Even have the FUJI stamp). You don't need to even take the valve covers off. It can be done without pulling the motor but most of us find it easier to do so. Head resurfacing is optional. Some will suggest it and it certainly cant hurt. Follow the torque sequence and put it all back in. Also a great time for a new clutch kit (if 5 speed) and oil separator plate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 My opinion and how I would attack it. 1. Rule out air bubble . Fill the block with coolant through the top hose. Fill radiator, Start, run,, stop,, etc. Get it up to operating temp. Make sure its topped off. Drive short distance see what it does. 2. Still problems? Feel bottom hose,, Still cold.? Replace Thermostat. 3. Still problems? Its your head gasket. I had similar problems Bubbles in the over flow tank,, Water pushing out over flow. Overheating. I pulled the engine , replaced head gaskets. Sealed up all oil leaks while it was out. No more overheat problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfoub Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Yep pretty much what I did the other night, topped up engine through top radiator hose, topped up radiator, emptied out overflow bottle, all looked good after that. After we got home this evening coolant was overflowing onto the ground. Also the other night I could see big bubbles coming up into the overflow reservoir out of the overflow hose. Luckily it looks like a pretty easy fix, if everything I've read about the EJ22 is true. Do you have a part number for the correct Felpro head gaskets? What else should I order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Part number 9845PT and you'll want 2 of them. Search the oil separator plate. If yours is plastic, you'll want the stainless steel dealer upgrade. This cures that pesky oil leak that drips onto the catalytic converter. Probably new exhaust manifold and intake manifold gaskets. Timing kit if it's due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfoub Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Can I re-use the head bolts when changing the head gasket? I see most places selling head gaskets recommend new head bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It's hogwash. Re use them. Just dip the bottom inch in old engine oil to keep them lubed before reinstall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfoub Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 I've replaced the head gaskets on both sides of the engine and have the heads back on the engine. I'm trying to figure out how to torque the lower rows of head bolts. They were quite difficult to get undone with a long breaker bar. There doesn't seem to be enough room to get a torque angle meter in there to correctly torque the bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Once any Subaru overheats that badly, the head gaskets are sure to be shot. Every. Damn. Time. If you're sure you've solved what was making it overheat, proceed with the head gasket job. AND, get the heads surfaced! Emily 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I took the engine out,, However,, these other guys have done the heads in the car also. From what Ive learned,, they undo the engine mounts,, then move the engine side to side, depending on which side they are working and need the room on. Depending on how much room you have,, you MIGHT want to put a new gasket on the oil pan. The cross member is usually in the way. if you lift the engine up,, you may be able to get at those bolts that you normally cant. Regarding heads and torque. There is a procedure to torqing the bolts,, Yeah some of the procedure is to stretch new bolts, it wont hurt if you just do the entire procedure per the book. Don't just tighten them in whatever order you fell like. I used a hanes manual from parts store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 There are NO oil pan gaskets used in any Subaru engines post-EA82. RTV sealant only. Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfoub Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Got the heads back on with a bit of swearing and some rubber bands to hold the head bolts in place as I lowered the heads at an angle to get them back in. Would be much easier with some kind of small winch to hold the head while you position it into place as it's a pain to support the weight of the head and wiggle it into place. Borrowed a neighbours 3/8" torque wrench and followed the Subaru procedure for torquing. With the final tightening I just figured out where 90 degrees should be when tight. Put everything back on, didn't have any extra bolts/nuts lying around at the end, which is always good. Turned over fine but wouldn't start right away, figured out I had the fuel lines routed incorrectly so once I got them connected properly it fired right up. Ran with quite a loud tick on the driver's side for the first couple of drives. I changed the oil and filter as I wasn't sure when it was last done and after a couple of drives round town the tick disappeared and the engine now runs nice and quiet. So far we've put about 1500km on it since the head gaskets were replaced, including a 1000km round trip out to Vancouver and back. Temperature gauge gets up to about 1/3 and sits there. Fluid level in the overflow bottle hasn't shifted. Heater works great. Thanks for all the input. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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