jaytee5211 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 so got a quote for a clutch job today... 500 bucks!!! so ive decided im going to tackle this myself as i can get a kit for around a 100 bucks... question as this will be my first clutch job. ive seen and watched a lot of videos on how to do it, whats the time frame for a job like this and is anyone in the portland metro any that would like to take a noob through his first clutch change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3crows Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) I've done a couple of these but I have a barn and a lift and the tools. There's two trains of thought on doing a clutch job. One is to work underneath the car and just pull the trans, which is not easy due to the lack of working room. Getting it out is a lot easier than getting it back in. lining it up to the engine while laying on your back with the trany on your chest is a bitch. Even if you have tall jack stands and a transmission jack I still see it as the least desirable option. So the other option is to pull the engine and trans. as a unit. It's time consuming because you have to disconnect everything that's connected to the engine and trans. plus you have to drop the cross member that supports the back of the trans, header pipes, CV axles,shifter and linkage, tach and or speedo cable. The worst part is pulling the axles. Then there's all the spoob on top in the engine compartment and that mess of hoses to the air cleaner that you have to remember where they all go. The electric stuff is easy though. You can count on several hours to do this just to get it ready to pull. I think I also removed the carb because you have to tilt the engine quite a bit to get it out and slide the engine around on the lifting chain and you don't want to damage it. Now you have to have a chain hoist and something to hang it on or a lift from Harbor Freight and preferably a concrete floor to be able to roll it on. They're around $180 on sale. So here we go. The radiator is out, the fan and pulley are removed the axles are out and you've got everything disconnected except the final dropping of the cross member on the back of the trans. Don't forget the motor mounts,(ugly part to do). You can either drain the trans or wrap it up tightly with plastic and duct tape. It will probably still leak some but it won't drain all over the floor before you can do anything about it (learned that the hard way), and not a plastic grocery bag, something heavier and stronger. Connect your lifting chain to the engine so that you have about a foot clearance over the top of the engine remembering that the trans. weighs about as much as the engine. I think I used an intake manifold bolt and a bell housing bolt diagonally across, Flip the hood back against the wind shield and and hook up the lift and start to lift it up a little Now go under the car and put down a piece of plywood under the tail piece of the trans in such a way that if you don't have the engine and trans, balanced mostly, the tail of the trans will hit it rather than the concrete or ground. Put a block of wood or something under the trans next to the cross member so that when you finish disconnecting the cross member from the car the tail of the trans will drop about 2 inches or so or enough to clear the shift linkage,and then finish disconnecting the trans. from the cross member. Go back up top and start to lift. Go slowly and watch everything! You are looking for things you didn't see to disconnect. The car will come up as the weight of the engine is relieved. You may have to rock the engine a bit for the motor mounts to free up. When the engine is free and can be wiggled around, push down on the front of the engine to see if by doing so you are able to make the trans. come up. If so that's good and you can continue lifting and moving the lift backwards. If not, set the engine down and move the lifting chain to a different bolt location. You want the trans. to be hanging down but you also want to be able to make it come level when it comes out and over the front of the car. If your trans support block hasn't fallen over by now, remove it, keeping the plywood there just in case. Keep lifting and tilting the engine and moving the lift back. It's tight but eventually you'll get the engine and trans. over the front and out. Piece of cake! On the ground, break the trans.apart from the engine. Take of the pressure plate and clutch disc and inspect the flywheel. If it's oily in there or smells of burnt oil or the flywheel looks discolored from heat or grooved, you'll need to have it resurfaced at a machine shop and probably have to replace the rear seal. A little oil and dust is mostly OK. This is debatable. Some would change it just because you're in there and you won't have to go through all this at a later time if it starts leaking and ruins your clutch job. Others will say, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Wet oil is bad. If you have to re surface the flywheel, think how much fun it would have been to take the flywheel off with the engine still in the car. Impact wrenches are wonderful things. Your flywheel is resurfaced and hopefully you didn't need to replace the rear seal, and your clutch kit is installed. Now you get to put the trans. and engine back together and again, you'll wonder how the hell you could have done this from underneath the car on your back with the trans. on your chest. It doesn't just sliiiiide in. That's about the whole of it. If you do go ahead and do this yourself I'd be interested in knowing if you changed your mind afterwords about having someone else do it for $500. But like someone said on one of these posts, we all started from knowing nothing and thanks to all those who helped us along the way. It's dirty, greasy and frustrating at times and you'll swear a lot but when it's done and it works, you did it. If you don't have a Haynes manual for this car, get one before you start. Hope this helps. If worst comes to worst, I'm in La Center. I just don't do traffic very well so hate going into Portland. Hmmmmmmm. just noticed that you have a front wheel drive whereas mine are 4WD but I doubt there would be mush difference except for the drive line disconnect that I have to do. You might also want to check your brake pads while you've got the front wheels apart. Edited February 20, 2016 by 3crows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmarrott Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Ive had to get into the bell housing on two of my subarus,and if you dont have a engine hoist, about your only option is getting a friend, unless you feel comfortable holding the weight of the transmission less than a foot above your chest and are crafty with a jack, and dropping the transmission. Or you just do what my mom did, and use a tree to swap the motor on my grandmas truck. Dont ask how she managed that cuz i have no idea lol. I have also heard that its easier to pull the engine out and leave the transmission in the car, but again it falls on lack of engine hoist in my case. Disassembly front eh bottom is fairly straight forward. starter comes off, clutch and hill hold cables, wiring harness from top of transmission, speedo cable, and the exhaust headers if your exhaust is clean enough you can unbolt the joint behind the transmission to, or like mine the bolts were rusted together so i just wedged the exhaust out of my way. You can pull the axles entirely, or pull the roll pins and slide them off as the trans drops out as i did. Takes a little more coordination upon reassembly, but with a friend helping i think it may save a little time. Trans is held in by the cross member under it by 4 bolts to the body, and to the engine by 5 (i think) bolts, 2 of which are also for the starter. dont remember if the ea82 body has the sway bar under the trans too, or if thats just the ea81 body. if it is, just a simple few bolts and it falls off. when installing the new clutch, hopefully it comes with a centering tool, and make sure the disc is facing the correct way. It should be printed somewhere on it 'flywheel side' or something to that effect. From there, 3crows pretty much has you covered for what to look for in the bell housing. reassembly, as usual, is reversed from disassembly. time frame for this way of going at it is probably and hour or so for disassembly, and maybe about the same if not a bit more for reassembly, granted you dont run into any 'jesus' bolts or stripped or broken bolts. *jesus bolt being defined as a bolt that you just pushed with all your might and with a heavy grunt have now lifted the car off the jack stands and it still wont budge, and you cant help but go "Jesus!" If you have access to air tools, you hopefully wont have said problem lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downwash77 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I never needed to pull the trans out to do a clutch just the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 +1 the engine out is THE way to go. You can have an ea motor ready to pull in a couple hours your first time. After a few, you can have one out in an hour. I would think if you pull the rad the engine wouldnt even have to leave the car. You need like 8-10" of room to change a clutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3crows Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Are we talking about taking engine AND trans out together or just the engine? Seems to me that I had to have the trans.pretty low in order to get enough tilt to get it out of the engine compartment. I didn't think there was enough room to separate the engine and get it past the pilot shaft of the trans. before hitting the upper radiator support even with everything off the front of the engine. And if there is, it sounds like it's a two man job, one working the engine out and one under the car tilting the trans. so the pilot shaft doesn't get hung up in the clutch assm. And I think that would be the easiest part. Putting it back in and aligning the pilot shaft and trans. to the engine would seem like a real nightmare since, for one thing, lining up the splines on the pilot shaft with the clutch disc would be a real headache, and getting the angle right and the lack of maneuverability in the engine compartment. Though you say you've done it, please tell me how. I would do it in a pair of seconds rather than having to pull the axles. Edited February 23, 2016 by 3crows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmarrott Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 ive only ever dropped the transmission to get in there, but as Downwash77 and crazyhorse001 said, they pull just the engine, leaving the trans in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I don't think you have to pull either out. Im thinking if you remove the condenser (if equipped), remove the clutch fan, the electric fan, pull the radiator out, and undo the motor mounts, you could probably just wiggle the engine all the way up to the radiator support and have plenty of room to work on the clutch and flywheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytee5211 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 i saw a thread on her about how to do it without removing the engine or trans but now i cant seem to located it, any help there. i dont wanna pull my engine cause this car is my daily driver and my only transpo to and from work cause i work nights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two85s Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 To each their own on how to do it. I did this job on my wagon while in my driveway with stands and a floor-jack. I pulled the driveshaft, then the tranny. First time took all day (8hrs) for removal and reinstall. I didn't know how to carefully put in the new rear main seal or how critical it was. I damaged the seal and had to do the job a second time which only took about 4hrs that time. 1) The seal is critical and 2) you can buy an inexpensive "clutch alignment tool" which helps a lot. This was 20 years years ago and the same clutch and tranny are doing just great. I wrote about this in a different post and others chimed in with a lot of helpful tips. Good luck with the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytee5211 Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 To each their own on how to do it. I did this job on my wagon while in my driveway with stands and a floor-jack. I pulled the driveshaft, then the tranny. First time took all day (8hrs) for removal and reinstall. I didn't know how to carefully put in the new rear main seal or how critical it was. I damaged the seal and had to do the job a second time which only took about 4hrs that time. 1) The seal is critical and 2) you can buy an inexpensive "clutch alignment tool" which helps a lot. This was 20 years years ago and the same clutch and tranny are doing just great. I wrote about this in a different post and others chimed in with a lot of helpful tips. Good luck with the job. did you do it without pulling the engine or trans completely from the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I've done it by pulling engine only. A big tree, or rafters with a beam to spread the load. Come along or hoist. S ratchet strap to help with the tilt front to back. Once it is up, roll the car back. For under car work, I have a bunch of solid concrete blocks 4x8x16 and some 2x12s. Make 4 piles of the blocks for where the tires will be. 2x12s make ramps up, and bridge from front to back. Smaller brick sized blocks make the supports for the 2x12s so the tops are flush. Drive up, pull 2x12s from side, lots of room to work under. 8" high makes it possible to get the transmission out from under the car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two85s Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 did you do it without pulling the engine or trans completely from the car? Not correct. The engine stays where it is. I removed the driveshaft and the tranny completely out, cleaned the tranny, mounted the new clutch, I may have also replaced the slave cylinder...can't remember. Either the engine or the tranny must come out I think. Here's a link to that other thread. Best wishes, Aaron http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/156571-pitch-stopper-for-a-lifted-88-gl-clutch-replacement-tips/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3crows Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Dave, you're saying that with the car up 8" you can get the engine out of the car and onto the ground without messing with the trans. at all or do you still have to lower the the cross member? It's pulling the damned axles I'm trying to avoid mainly. But if you still have to work on the clutch upside down in the engine compartment because you still can't get the engine out of the car, not as ugly as having to pull axles, but still ugly, I would do it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 The 8 inch lift is to get under the car. If you need or want to do stuff underneath. To lift the engine, no pulling axles, remove radiator. Put a jack under the trans. To help position it. Engine slides forward a few inches to get clear of the transmission. Block the Trans to the cross member or whatever, raise engine, roll car back. Lower onto a milk crate or blocks. Now easy to get at the back of the engine. Or just raise the engine, twist 180 degrees, work on it above the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Leave the cross member on the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 4 bolts engine to bell housing. I remove the 4 bolts engine mounts to engine block. Passenger side ones are easier to get at, drivers a bit of a pain, but a combination wrench can get them. Sometimes use a piece of 1X2 wood to get force on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonist Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I like 3crows ideas, but you don't need to pull both the engine & gearbox out. My opinion is just to do the engine, because: 1. you don't need to get under the car except to undo the exhaust & engine mounts 2. you don't need to muck around with trying to remove driveshafts, gearshift linkages I've done a rear main seal (which if you are going to pull the flywheel off for machining, I'd highly recommend. $20 or $30 part but takes hours to get at, and the same time to get back in) in about 4 hours with 2 people, a sturdy wooden roof bema & a rope. Engine crane or block & tackle, it's a single person job. disconnect battery 1. drain & remove radiator 2. remove fan belts 3. if you have air con, unbolt the compressor from the engine with the lines attached and swing off to the side 4. same for the power steering (you can undo the lines at the rack or pump, but sometimes they're hard to line up 5. unclip charcoal canister & swing over top of engine 6. unplug engine electrical connectors for the engine on left & right sides 7. unplug distributor from the coil 8. label and remove the 3 "fuel" lines on the left side 9. if you have a hill-holder cable, you'll need to undo the nuts on the end, unclip it from it's bracket, and pull it through. hang it off to the side 10. remove the starter motor 11. hook up the engine to whatever you're going to lift with 12. support the front of the gearbox with a jack or something (it will drop when you remove the engine otherwise) 13. unbolt engine from gearbox (2 bolts top, 2 nuts on studs bottom) 14. undo exhaust from heads underneath (except turbos, which you need to unbolt the dump from the turbo instead) 15. undo 2 nuts underneath engine crossmember for engine mounts 16. lift engine until mounts are clear of the crossmember, then wiggle, lever, whatever is needed to separate the engine from the gearbox sounds like a lot, but most of these steps are minutes long only & far easier to access than anything underneath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3crows Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Even though I didn't start this thread, thanks folks! for all the good info.Next time I will just pull the engine. I wish I would have asked before I pulled my engine and trans the last time. I won't do that again unless both axles and the clutch go out at the same time! I'm still a wee bit apprehensive about putting the engine back in the car. Even with the clutch alignment tool the engine and trans have to be aligned pretty much dead nuts for it to go together and you have to be underneath and turning the trans shaft to get the pilot shaft splines aligned in and through the clutch disc. It took a little wiggling and screwing around to get it together when I had both of them on the ground. 99.9% of the time I'm a one man operation. I think I used a couple clamps to squeeze the engine and trans together just enough so that when I turned the trans shaft a bit it clicked into place and I was then able to slide them together. You just gota do it the best way you can. Edited February 26, 2016 by 3crows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornbreadfed Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'm putting in a new clutch in my 87' gl wagon 4wd, what should I get flywheel resurfaced to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish-N-Fool Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Just an FYI you can do a clutch without pulling the engine or tranny. All you need to do is pull the radiator and hoses, unbolt the motor mounts and bellhousing bolts and the exhaust pipes. Then you can lift the motor enough to spin it to the side and get at the clutch. You don't need to unhook any of the wires just a few hoses. With this method I have replaced a clutch in well under an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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