andrsn Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I've started freshening up my old engine, mostly to address oil leaking out of the head gasket. It took me almost all weekend but this filthy beast is starting to finally look clean.. I've come up with my first 2 questions. 1. I replaced the rear main seal but what is the smaller diameter seal inside the main seal called? Seems like I should replace that too. When I was cleaning it, the outside face fell off and I can't figure out what part it is in the parts manuals online or what its called. Its the reddish seal in this photo: 2. I bought Fel-Pro head gaskets through RockAuto, should I use any sealant on them? I've only read not to but the cardboard packaging they came in says to use it, maybe that is in reference to some of the other gaskets in the kit. I'm going to move forward sealant free unless someone says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkc1962 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I recently did a rebuilt on my 82 brat and came across similar. Also never coudl find that seal. from what I can tell MAYBE some leakage is possible between the crankshaft and where that flange is mated to it? who knows. I just cleaned my old one back up, applied a small amout of rtv to the back of it and back in. The flywheel slightly compresses all of this when its bolted down,. No leaks to date. As for headgasket sealant....for the most part desgined to be installed dry. But for 30 years I have always coated both my head gaskets as well as the mating surface with a light dusting of aerosol based copper coat. Ive never had a failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I have not seen that red seal like thing. But mine are all 3ATs. No sealant for headgaskets is what I have always seen and done. For the intake manifold, get the gaskets from a Subaru dealer. Also, the re enforced o rings for the oil passages to the cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 resurface your heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 It is the crankshaft O ring. 413967100 Looks discontinued,but,I`m sure you can find a subsitute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrsn Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Thanks for all the advice, this is my first car engine rebuild. I've done a few motorcycle engines and things have always turned out mostly correct. Appears like that seal is just a really squished O-ring, I'll figure something out for a replacement. I'm gonna check the head flatness and toss them in the milling machine if they need it. I'll also resurface the intake manifold mating surfaces. I've also gotta extract a broken bolt that the previous owner snapped off in the right head where the intake manifold bolts on, that's been fun so far... Is Loctite the preferred substance for preventing oil seepage though the fly wheel mounting bolts? There was some tacky/goopy gray stuff in there when I removed the bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I've never worried too much about the red seal. If it's handy and in good condition, I'll reinstall it. If it's not, I slap the flywheel on without it. Seems to not be too critical. I use red or blue loctite on the flywheel bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 The trick to keeping cylinder head gaskets from leaking, is the cylinder head bolts. Clean the threads, the entire bolt, and the washers with brake cleaner. Squirt brake cleaner in the hole and blow out with compressed air. Have a clean outer face of cylinder head, so that the washers have something to bite into. Be careful inserting long bolt in holes with shoulder, and the short bolts go in the holes with no shoulders. Otherwise, you will strip out the block, which is very very bad. Tighten bolts from the center out. Bring up to maximum torque and then (this is important), stop work and let it sit overnight. Then come back the next day and torque them again because they will have slightly loosened overnight. For a quiet engine, you should get a very slight amount of gasket maker around the two oil passage holes between the cylinder head and the camshaft tower, without plugging up those holes. And use a genuine Subaru O-ring at the obvious location. Use a high temp and flexible gasket maker at the bolts that hold the camtower cover on and at the bottom 2/3rds of the black rubber seal for the camtower cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrsn Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 I got one side completed yesterday fairly smoothly. I did take off the 2nd head last night before calling it a day and there was a ton of carbon build up in one of the lifter passage ways. Is that indicative of any issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 For cleaning the head bolt holes, I have an extra head bolt that I ground a notch into. Think of what a tap looks like. Use that with wd40 or similar to clean out. Flush out the crumbs also. The bolts are supposed to be installed and torqued with engine oil on the threads, per fsm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 those flat orange O rings get reused from time to time with silastic /silicone sealant. The crank out of a 3/84 compliance plate sedan of mine that was auto incidentally, did not have one, or room for one !I may have just sealed it up for god luck when a flywheel went on , and if it has failed, may be reason for a nasty clutch issue that has developed sometimes clutch is nice on take off - other times is a shuddering cow of a thing, massive shuddering ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrsn Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 The trick to keeping cylinder head gaskets from leaking, is the cylinder head bolts. Clean the threads, the entire bolt, and the washers with brake cleaner. Squirt brake cleaner in the hole and blow out with compressed air. Have a clean outer face of cylinder head, so that the washers have something to bite into. Be careful inserting long bolt in holes with shoulder, and the short bolts go in the holes with no shoulders. Otherwise, you will strip out the block, which is very very bad. Tighten bolts from the center out. Bring up to maximum torque and then (this is important), stop work and let it sit overnight. Then come back the next day and torque them again because they will have slightly loosened overnight. For a quiet engine, you should get a very slight amount of gasket maker around the two oil passage holes between the cylinder head and the camshaft tower, without plugging up those holes. And use a genuine Subaru O-ring at the obvious location. Use a high temp and flexible gasket maker at the bolts that hold the camtower cover on and at the bottom 2/3rds of the black rubber seal for the camtower cover. Got both the heads flat and surfaced, lapped my valves and all the studs/nuts were as clean as I could get them before reinstalling. During the removal of the heads I didn't see a single o-ring, so I'm not sure where the 'obvious location' is. Can you explain or maybe there is a handy diagram somewhere that I can't seem to locate. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 The original is between the head and cam tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 O ring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrsn Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Sorry, but I can't figure out where there should be an o-ring. Do the ea81's have came towers? Every time I search for cam tower all I get are ea82 videos and diagrams. Between the engine block and heads I have just the head gasket. Between the head and the rocker assembly (with the 2 head bolts running through them) I put a small amount of gasket sealer on the mating surface but I don't see anywhere for an o-ring. Maybe I'm just totally off track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Oh, nuts. Missed the EA81. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 The subaru O-ring goes in a slightly recessed area, that surrounds an oil port, at the bottom rear of the camtower. Dig the old one out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrsn Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 I'm just going to have to assume the ea81 doesn't have o-rings on the cam towers and everyone is thinking ea82 or maybe the non-hydro push rod ea81 have them? I took a picture of the mating surface between the head and what i'm guessing is a my cam tower and there isn't an oil port going between them. Although maybe I'm not even looking at the cam tower, I'm still learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 EA81 don't have cam towers or o rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrsn Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 EA81 don't have cam towers or o rings. Thank You! I thought I was going bananas, now I should be able to get this engine all back together and in the car in the next week or 2. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrsn Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 As I mentioned before, one of my lifter passageways had a significant amount of carbon build up when I removed the head. I popped the oil pan off today to replace the gasket and clean. There were a fair amount of carbon pebbles in the oil pan as well. The pump screen was pretty clean and I just cleaned out the oil pan, put a new gasket on and re-assembled. Is any of that carbon build of concerning or fairly normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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