Kristina Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) So, I'm still trying to figure out what is 'normal' for this car and what isn't. I am getting a really loud noise/vibration at around 3000 rpm so I tried to record it. That sound didn't come through on the audio very well, so I thought I'd ask about the sound that does. It's most apparent in the video at about 23+ seconds, where I am waiting to turn and then any time I am accelerating. Video: Edited to add two more videos: I left the lens cap on in this one because the camera was in my lap to see if I could the sound with less background noise and I didn't want to make you all car sick: And this one is just in my driveway when I got home from work. The sound is different when in gear vs. not: Is that sound 'normal' or is there something I should be looking at to fix? (Also, I googled "what does an exhaust leak sound like?" and this was by far the funniest answer: "I like to describe it as a weedwhacker on meth.") Edited March 26, 2016 by Kristina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The ticking sounds like it is at valve speed. Almost sounds like a hydraulic lifter collaspes lower engine speed/oil pressure. Definetly not normal. Not sure about the higher RPM rumble and vibration. Does it happan w/the car not moving? It is not normal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The ticking sounds like a signal indicator, but does seem to change frequency slightly so I would guess that it might be the speedometer cable ??? The rumbling sounds like it is associated with the exhaust. really need more info if possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I have a 1985 Leone ea82 turbo. Last week I had that same noise start in my car. I pulled the motor and replaced the bearings on the crank. Noise is gone. It's a spun bearing. My guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The ticking sure sounds like a lifter or rocker arm issue, It is definitely at valve train speed. The rumble isn't as clear, but from what I could pick up, there are two possibilities. Either exhaust or driveline vibration/drone. If you can duplicate it free revving or power braking it (IE, not moving) then it's exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 The ticking sounds like it is at valve speed. Almost sounds like a hydraulic lifter collaspes lower engine speed/oil pressure. Definetly not normal. Not sure about the higher RPM rumble and vibration. Does it happan w/the car not moving? It is not normal either. The ticking sure sounds like a lifter or rocker arm issue, It is definitely at valve train speed. The rumble isn't as clear, but from what I could pick up, there are two possibilities. Either exhaust or driveline vibration/drone. If you can duplicate it free revving or power braking it (IE, not moving) then it's exhaust. I though about the lifter tick thing but every once in a while I get about two seconds of lifter tick when I start the car and its not quite the same sound as this - the lifter tick is faster and definitely more metallic sounding. I know everyone's computer sounds a little different... I added two more clips to the post, maybe that will help. The best way I can think to describe it is kind of like a baseball card flapping in the spokes of a bicycle wheel or a really quiet diesel engine. Also, in two of the clips when I accelerate from a stop the sound kicks up when I step on gas but then cuts out, kind of burbles, then goes back to being consistent - does that fit the hydro lifter/rocker arm/low oil pressure theory? (Note to self - an oil pressure gauge is probably a good idea.) A far as the other sound/vibration goes, I am pretty sure it does not happen unless the car is moving but I have not verified that to 100% certainty. It is a very deep rhythmic sort of pulsating vrooom, vrooom, vrooom anywhere North of, oh, about 2800 RPM regardless of MPH, and grows in intensity as the RPMs increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The vibratory rumble could be a bearing or possibly the water pump going out. I would verify the water pump is ok by maybe a stethoscope or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I would check the motor and trans mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 I would check the motor and trans mounts. I was getting a loud clunk that I could feel through the floorboard when I shifted into reverse. My other half found one loose and one broken transmission mount. He tightened the loose one and the clunking went away. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that the broken one might still be causing issues even though the clunking went away . We've already got some new ones, just waiting for a day off with no rain to replace them. Another thought is the passenger side CV axle. I guess it goes bad due to its proximity to the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 I have a 1985 Leone ea82 turbo. Last week I had that same noise start in my car. I pulled the motor and replaced the bearings on the crank. Noise is gone. It's a spun bearing. My guess. How did you diagnose/figure out that's what it was? I don't want to rule out anything if the symptoms fit, but this is my 'to work and back' car so I don't really have the option of pulling things apart just to have a look around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I did all the same things as you . I replaced all the mounts, noise was still there. I tried everything . I didn't want to believe it was the bearings. After replacing a lot of unnecessary things. I just went for the thing I knew it was. I listened to both of your videos. I am 90% sure it's your bearings. If you can listen to your motor while it's running see if the knocking is coming from the bottom of the motor, lay down and focus on the oil pan. I'm pretty sure your going to see that the noise will be generating from there. I have a 1983 brat . And a 1985 Leone both are turbo motors, same as the one you have in your car .look up on YouTube " what does a spun bearing sound like " you will hear your noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 First off, I want to address what Nowhereman said in the post above. The EA81T engine was available during the 1983-4 model years. From 1985-90 the EA82T was the turbo engine option. They are NOT the same and they are NOT interchangeable. Some parts can be interchanged, injectors, turbos, exhaust manifolds and downpipes, etc. but the engines themselves are not the same. Kristina, you need to get an automotive stethoscope, one that can have the needle removed so it looks like a megaphone. Get your other half to sit in the driver's seat and get him to make the noise. With the stethoscope in megaphone mode, listen all over the car to try to pinpoint the noise. If you can't find it, or he can't reproduce it, reattach the needle and stick it down right on top of the engine block, above the crankshaft centerline. If you hear the noise in this location, your engine is finished. Knocking in this area would be crankshaft main, or connecting rod bearings. Damage to these bearings is bad news. To make the repair correctly, the engine will need a full teardown and cleaning. Both surfaces of each block half will need to be machined, reassembled and line bored, along with crankshaft machining, before new bearings can be installed. Assuming the parts are still in good enough condition to be reused. The engine block is specific to the EA81T and you will lose at LEAST your knock sensor mounting boss if you use a carb'd block. The crankshaft is probably interchangeable. Rod knock is not a cheap fix. A lot of cleaning and precise machining is required, and if done incorrectly of if steps are skipped for the sake of cost savings, you will quickly be back at square one. I hope it isn't rod knock, but the stethoscope should help you isolate the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) The engine block is specific to the EA81T and you will lose at LEAST your knock sensor mounting boss if you use a carb'd block. That isn't true most of the ea81 hydo lifter blocks came with the boss and it's already threaded. They even have all the same mounting holes for the power steering pump off a ea81t to fit on. From my findings a ea82 pump with bracket should bolt right on but haven't got one to try it since i have a ea81t pump and had a ea82 block. The only difference i have found on a ea81t block is the cam and the pistons. Edited March 28, 2016 by turbosubarubrat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 It would make sense that that Series-two EA81 blocks would be the same as the EA81Ts, it's easier to pay off the tooling changes if every engine after the changeover uses the same part. Thanks for the correction. That said, the hydro-lifter EA81s are much less common than the earlier engines in the U.S., since they were released in mid 1983 and were only available in the EA81 hatchback and BRAT from 1985-89... And there are probably zero NOS EA81 shortblocks left in the world, so they would all need to be machined anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Not so fast. EA81T crankcases (not just shortblocks) have a different part # than regular automatic crankcases. Must be SOME difference. No need to machine the block for rod bearings. Unless a main bearing has spun(does not sound like it) there is no need to line bore Been there done that. An additional suggestion-Ticking sounds a bit like a cracked piston. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I actually find more hydro blocks than solids where i'm at probably because all the solids got swapped out or the cars got scrapped. I've had 4 solids and something like 15 hydros. Only other difference difference i could find is for the second inspection/access hole for the bellhousing/case cover for the ea81t. Auto solid lifter block hydro block ea81t block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Update: Replaced the trans mounts - both were broken, but the vibration/noise is still there. I did confirm that it makes the noise even without the car moving, so I guess that points toward exhaust leak? Bought a stethoscope, but couldn't really chase down the other noise. Did an oil change yesterday. Good news: no metal bits/chunks/flakes. Bad news: coolant . This morning I left it in the hands of Superior Import Repair. I probably won't have them do the work, but I will gladly pay for a professional diagnosis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) The people at Superior are good. We've worked with them before. After listening to the videos several times, I can say that I DO hear some lifter noise, but I would definitely ask them about checking the flexplate. A cracked flexplate can make a noise just like that, be responsive to gear changes/rpms and not have any effect on the engine itself. Emily Edited April 1, 2016 by ccrinc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantum Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 A Large Flathead Screwdriver with solid plastic handle makes for a good stethoscope, carefully place on various engine parts to listen in while it's running. You can make out ticks, rumbles and gurgling noises if you know what to listen for ... Cheers, Bantum ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 It's been a while but... I took my wagon to the folks at Superior back in April. They had it for a few days then called and told me that they couldn't find anything wrong with it (besides a leaking power steering rack, which I knew about). They said that they were very impressed with the condition and how well it ran/drove for being an auto turbo and that I should be very happy with it. Of course that was great news, but I still had my doubts. Since then, though I couldn't tell you when or why, the vrooming/vibration has gone away. I'm not sure which is more troubling, its presence or its sudden absence. To address some of the suggestions above: -head gaskets were done this past weekend so I know the flexplate is intact and the pistons are not cracked - at least not cracked on the face I could see. -placing a stethoscope on the centerline of the engine block, the oil pan, or pretty much anywhere on the engine only leads me to believe that the sound is not coming from the engine. My present theory is that it's a transmission based noise. The third video clearly shows that the noise changes when shifting from N to D and I am pretty sure that the noise changed when an adjustment was made to the vacuum diaphragm. Maybe the guys at Superior are right, the sound is normal and I have nothing to worry about... but maybe the ATF pump or something related is sad. Any thoughts? And I know this is where people say "put a manual in it" but I'm not very comfortable driving a stick. It's still an option, just not one that I'm excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 If i kept this car instead of selling it 2 years ago i would of swapped it to a 5 speed. How many miles are on the old girl now? Back then she only had 136k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 If i kept this car instead of selling it 2 years ago i would of swapped it to a 5 speed. How many miles are on the old girl now? Back then she only had 136k miles. 169k now. I bought it with 146... Or maybe 148, I don't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 Update: Auto trans is gone and so is the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) Update: Auto trans is gone and so is the noise. You get a 5 speed swapped in? Hopefully not a 4 speed since 3rd always goes out in them. If you have any more problems with it bring to superior soobie and import. Edited April 23, 2017 by turbosubarubrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristina Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 You get a 5 speed swapped in? Hopefully not a 4 speed since 3rd always goes out in them. If you have any more problems with it bring to superior soobie and import. 5spd d/r 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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