New heads or crate engine EA82?

[Nitsivart]

So I had my the heads for my 89 EA82 pressure tested and they both have pretty decent cracks between the valves. I'm stuck in a pickle now and am needing some advise from the people that have dealt with this stuff. My options as far as I see them are these:

a) Run with the cracks and hope for the best

2) Get new heads

III) Get these heads fixed up

d) Get a crate engine and call it good

 

I'm not a fan of the idea of using the cracked ones because I want this to be a reliable vehicle in the long run, don't want to have to worry about pulling the engine again soon. From what I can find new heads are like $250 ea plus shipping, so I'm looking at around $600 or so if I went that option, about the same price that I was quoted for getting my current heads fixed. I found a crate engine nearby with ~50k on it for $950, which would be a bit more than getting my heads done up but I would be getting a lot more out of it.

 

If you were in my shoes which way would you lean? I'm even kind of thinking about just doing an EJ swap at this point, but I think everything for that is going to run me quite a bit more than just a crate EA82 and that cost already is starting to push at the top end of the budget I have for this build.

 

Also, what's a good place to source heads around WA? I would rather not be shipping everything cross country.

 

Thanks in advance for the help!

[DaveT]

Small cracks between the valves is normal. Some of my engines have them, some don't. There was a tsb about it years ago.

[john in KY]

If you do opt for new heads, I won't, make sure they are the generation 3 heads. 

[MR_Loyale]

What was the reason for removing the heads to begin with? Was the motor running poorly? Are you doing the work yourself or is someone hired? Is money no oject?

 

If the engine ran fine I would reuse the heads as nonsubaru machine shops not familiar with the Ea82 would declare the heads unusable. From their perspective of having to warrantee their head work, I agree. But that doesn't mean the heads won't last a long time. My heads have those cracks and the engine runs fine. 

 

A crate motor isn't just a swap and go. They typically have sat for long periods with no lubrication meaning dried out seal and belts. And there is no guarantee the heads are better. 

 

It is a question of time, cost and the quality of the finished product you desire.

Edited June 15, 2016 by MR_Loyale

[Dee2]

upload some pictures of the heads and folks will be better able to advise you.

[idosubaru]

you never actually said if they failed a pressure test? Or did the shop just balk? - a machine shop will take one look at an EA/ER head and deny the heads due to cracks.  but the problem is those cracks are normal. 

 

cracks between the valves is normal - run them.  nearly every EA82/ER27 on the road today has cracks between the valves, Subaru even calls it normal. 

usually machine shops freak out when they see those.  Very few shops will know about that EA specific issue.

 

they can repair them with "stitch pins" but it's all but pointless to do so.  GD says they'll just crack again even if repaired, though i've never seen that myself. 

[skishop69]

They will crack again. They did on my XT GL-10. Looking back, I wouldn't have spent the money to fix them the first time even knowing this was normal. In all the years I've been a member here, I've heard of one case where the cracks spread far enough to actually get into the coolant passage, and I believe that engine had documented abuse. If pressed, most machine shops will do the head work, but won't warranty it unless you have them welded. Not really worth it since Subaru deemed it 'normal'.

[Nitsivart]

What was the reason for removing the heads to begin with? Was the motor running poorly? Are you doing the work yourself or is someone hired? Is money no oject?

 

 

I removed the heads because I figured I would preemptively fix a potential problem before it arrived. Had I known that cracked heads were normal before starting I probably would have left it as is. It was running a bit rough, but nothing a tune-up would have probably fixed. I needed to do the clutch and the timing belt and I had a bit of extra spare cash at the time so I figured a small overhaul would save me sometime down the road because I already had the engine out. I am doing most of the work myself, but I work at a place that allows me access to tools and a lift and some non-Subaru-specialist mechanic knowledge. Money is definitely an object at this point in the project.

 

you never actually said if they failed a pressure test? Or did the shop just balk?

I was told that when vacuum was put on it that it sucked oil that they put on the top the valves right through the crack. Another machine shop just told me that it failed. I took it to two because I didn't trust the first guy.

 

The cracks are obvious to the eye but I was hoping when I brought them in but they weren't all the way through. The last shop I took it to pulled one of the valves out for me and showed me the crack through the center.

 

The attached picture gives an idea of the cracks, that one is about the worst looking one.

[DaveT]

Looks like the normal crack.

[Nitsivart]

Looks like the normal crack.

Does the normal crack normally fail pressure tests too?

[joe5]

Rather than dump a bunch of money into an ea82, I would do the bare minimum to get back on the road to hold you over until you can afford an ej swap. If your ea82 craps out on ya before you can fund an ej swap, you can usually find runner ea82s on craigslist for 100-200 bucks outta parts cars. Just pop another runner in. Just my opinion to balance your short term budget with your long term goal of have a reliable car. 

[DaveT]

I suspect a vacuum would pull oil through the crack. I never had one tested. I have had only 1 head since 1988 fail due to a crack that opened between the coolant and the exhaust port. I don't know if it started from the typical between valve crack.. I do know that it was part of an engine that was run hot with low coolant a few times. (worst case I ever had ) it was the only Subaru engine I've seen where a blown head gasket put coolant into the crankcase. It ran fine for a number of years after I resealed it, before the coolant leak problem developed. It also burned oil like crazy, I suspect the oil rings got ruined. 1 quart per tank of gas , but it passed emissions every time. Since I figured it was toast, I just added used oil, old oil, surplus old atf, every other half quart, mixed with cheap new oil. I only stopped running it when the coolant crack got so bad that abut 16oz of water would drip through while it was parked at work. I ran it with a zero pressure radiator cap, otherwise it wouldn't have kept coolant long enough to get anywhere.

 

So as long as the coolant jacket isn't compromised, and your heads haven't been badly overheated, they should be reliable.

[Animated Meat]

I
have recently gone thru a similar scenario. The car was running very
poorly…then not at all. Discovered with a compression test that one
cylinder was at ~ 30psi. I pulled the head…and there were the
infamous cracks..much worse than yours looks. I apologize…didn’t
take any photos. I didn’t know this was normal until searching
around on the USMB…anyway, I found the service bulletin that said
the cracks were normal and took it into a shop to have them check the
valves and seats. Fellow said he was familiar with the cracks…and
that the exhaust valve looked like it was probably leaking. He
re-ground the seats and lapped the valves in… said he got it to
seal again..  and that he didn’t think it needed new seats or
valves. Did not do a leak down test. So I took a chance and spent an
entire weekend putting everything back together and it ran great for
about 30 minutes on a test drive…shut it off to change out my
studded tires…started it to move it….and it wouldn’t stay
running consistently. Did another compression test and the best I can
get in the original suspect cylinder is ~ 115lbs…others are at 130,
135 and 140. It will run….but not great and I don’t trust it for more than a half hour
drive.  I don’t have a lot of money into it….but I do have a bunch
of my personal time. I now wish I had waited until I had found a set
of known good heads on ebay or somewhere before spending all that
time putting it all back together...or gone ahead and done an actual valve job.  So…just saying…don’t be
impatiently stupid like me and put the heads back on without knowing
for sure that they’ll function....because its a real bummer.

Hope you get it back together...keep it rollin!