surprise oil pump, separator problems?

[leogrrl]

Hello,

 

I have a 1999 5-speed Outback with 47,000 miles. We've maintained it and treated it well. Until this week, it hasn't had any problems.

 

But when we got the oil changed last week, they told us the oil pump was leaking and would need to be replaced -- for $600. I expressed my shock about such a pricey repair for a relatively low-mileage car, and the dealer agreed to split the costs at the warranty rate.

 

All was good until they opened up the transmission. Today they're saying that there was oil all over the inside, and that the separator plate also needs to be replaced. The as-yet unidentified problem could also extend to the rear main seal and, perhaps, the clutch. (I don't understand the connection with the clutch, but that's what they said.)

 

The car has been fine. No burnt-oil smell, no strange behavior. We've had the dealer do all of the oil changes. The only thing that was the least bit weird was a loud knocking noise when we started the car after being out of town for a week. That was last week. On the phone, the mechanic said that the noise was typical of Outbacks that hadn't been driven in a while, and that it should subside after a few minutes. It did.

 

Is any of this sounding suspicious to you guys? Am I being taken for a ride by the dealer? They have a good reputation as far as dealers go, but... if we were paying non-warranty/non-negotiated costs, we'd be looking at a $1200 bill as a minimum. Seems very high for a well-maintained car with only 47k, doesn't it? Or is this standard for Subarus? Previously, we've had a Honda, a Toyota, and a Mazda -- All totally problem-free at this mileage.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated -- Thanks so much.

 

Michele

[NOMAD327]

I had an oil leak on my 99 outback wagon DOHC 2.5 and 66,000 miles. It had a very steady oil drip from the front. This tends to find it’s way onto the exhaust pipe and does cause a bad smell. What was found was no problems with anything other than the actual lip seal, A couple dollar item. The Original seal's rubber lip was rock hard, to the point it would crack if you tried to bend it. It is common knowledge on this board that a front oil leak will normally be treated with removal of the oil pump which is almost no additional labor, to seal it’s back side. There is a rear plate held to the main oil pump body by a few small screws. They are to be loctited and tightened, as they have been known to loosen on some vehicles, which would open an abnormal leak path. On mine, there was only one that was slightly loose. Removing the pump exposes a small inexpensive o-ring that is also suspected of causing leakage problems and naturally replaced. The oil pump is more or less glued to the front of the engine block with an RTV sealant. This is also a potential leak path, and is renewed with pump reinstallation. All of the oil pump leaks are fixed by this routine seal renewal with only a couple dollars of parts and minimal labor beyond that to obtain access. Subaru recommends resealing the original pump and not replacing it as a treatment for leaks. Some people have had problems with cam seals leaking oil. Mine were all tight, and my mechanic has said he has not seen any leaking on a Subaru in his experience except at very high mileage. I would not reinstall a used timing belt myself, but some people do. I replaced my timing belt, water pump and thermostat in hopes that the motor will now go well beyond the 105,000 mile point at which it would have to come apart again for the normal timing belt change interval. The separator plate in the back of the motor is plastic on some models and is normally replaced with a metal piece if it is ever exposed. The balance of your oil leakage was probably just that miserable 3$ part on the front of the engine, and the rear leakage could have been lived with until it caused clutch problems. What happens there is oil that gets into the clutch itself, will cause a slipping clutch. Since the fix for the slipping clutch is to remove the engine and this exposes all the problem parts, there is no reason to do a preemptive fix on the back of the motor before there is a clutch problem. Since the front end work is done with the motor in the car, and the rear work can be done in it's time without repeating the front end work, The front end repair work should be done by itself. The rear end work can be done if and when it's necessary. Unless there are signs of big oil leaks at the rear, I would only do the front end repair right now.

 

[theotherskip]

it doesn't make sense that they were anywhere near the transmission. the oil pump is on one end of the engine, the transmission the other. they may have seen oil dripping from the bell housing, which could indicate an oil separator plate or rear main seal leaking, but you should have been notified. i think this dealer is doing some fishing for work. you should also be covered under the 5 year/60,000 mile warranty, no? in which case, complain, complain, complain!

[leogrrl]

Thanks for your replies! I am outside of the 5-year timeframe, but within the 60,000 miles. So the dealer arranged to have Subaru cover half of the charges, with me paying the remaining half of the warranty prices. Is that fair?

 

I just picked the car up. They ended up resealing (not replacing, my error) the oil pump, replacing the separator plate, and replacing the rear main seal, plus some other small seals (o-ring, etc.).

 

While they had everything apart, I had them replace the fan belts and the timing belt. They also reported that the clutch was 75% spent, so I had them replace that too. The cost for these items was parts only.

 

All said and done, it came to $900, plus tax, which is nearly 9% here in Washington State. That breaks down to $465 for the clutch, something like $150 for the fan belts and timing belt, and $300 for the various items to repair the oil leak.

 

Did I get taken for a ride? Or is this fair? It's a lot of money, but I really, really hope that this covers just about everything for several years to come....