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EA82 Timing belt failure


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40 replies to this topic

#26 Jakethewhite

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 06:44 PM

I just bought a new kit with the tensioners and all, this kit is by clone. When it had broke before the belt teeth was shreaded and it was the drivers side I think but I cannot remember. I will change the tensioners and idle out and see what happens

#27 Jakethewhite

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 06:45 PM

The bearing are all original and the belt was brand new from oriellys

Edited by Jakethewhite, 26 July 2017 - 06:46 PM.


#28 Jakethewhite

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:53 PM

So now I've changed all of the bearings and idle pully and set the driver side cam up and then rotated engine 360 segrees, driver cam rotated 180. Then set the passenger cam up and then rotated engine 360 with the driver side cam now back straight up. Then I rotated the engine until i came to the zero mark and set the distributor to the #1 cylinder. Put in the key and wouldn't start just kept reveing tried moving the distributor a bit and try again but no change. Any suggestions? Did I miss a step?

#29 Jakethewhite

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:54 PM

So now I've changed all of the bearings and idle pully and set the driver side cam up and then rotated engine 360 segrees, driver cam rotated 180. Then set the passenger cam up and then rotated engine 360 with the driver side cam now back straight up. Then I rotated the engine until i came to the zero mark and set the distributor to the #1 cylinder. Put in the key and wouldn't start just kept reveing tried moving the distributor a bit and try again but no change. Any suggestions? Did I miss a step?

#30 Jakethewhite

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:55 PM

So now I've changed all of the bearings and idle pully and set the driver side cam up and then rotated engine 360 segrees, driver cam rotated 180. Then set the passenger cam up and then rotated engine 360 with the driver side cam now back straight up. Then I rotated the engine until i came to the zero mark and set the distributor to the #1 cylinder. Put in the key and wouldn't start just kept reveing tried moving the distributor a bit and try again but no change. Any suggestions? Did I miss a step?

#31 Jakethewhite

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:56 PM

When you replace a timing belt, the 3 idlers should be replaced also.

Also, folow the procedure for installing. Then turn the crank by hand a couple revolution s. Re check the tension. Run for 10 seconds or so. Re check the tension.

The reason I do this is that the belts walk into the position they want to run in during this. If you just put them on, tension and drive, they will settle in, but end up loose.

So now I've changed all of the bearings and idle pully and set the driver side cam up and then rotated engine 360 segrees, driver cam rotated 180. Then set the passenger cam up and then rotated engine 360 with the driver side cam now back straight up. Then I rotated the engine until i came to the zero mark and set the distributor to the #1 cylinder. Put in the key and wouldn't start just kept reveing tried moving the distributor a bit and try again but no change. Any suggestions? Did I miss a step?



#32 scoobiedubie

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 06:02 PM

The timing belts can hop teeth on the camshaft gear, especially if you should happen to not have the plug wires into the correct distributor holes or try restarting it with the rotor in reversed direction.  Once a belt hops a couple of teeth on the camshaft gear, this can put a little extra strain on the belt, and your distributor timing gets way off seemingly by itself. If you carry something on the roof of the vehicle like boat or luggage compartment, that puts extra strain on the timing belts for some reason and can break them.



#33 Subaru Scott

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 06:31 PM

The timing belts can hop teeth on the camshaft gear, especially if you should happen to not have the plug wires into the correct distributor holes or try restarting it with the rotor in reversed direction.  Once a belt hops a couple of teeth on the camshaft gear, this can put a little extra strain on the belt, and your distributor timing gets way off seemingly by itself. If you carry something on the roof of the vehicle like boat or luggage compartment, that puts extra strain on the timing belts for some reason and can break them.

 

 

Sorry man, but you just can't be giving out advice like that.

 

1. The timing belt will never skip teeth unless it is horribly loose.

 

2. Nothing whatsoever can put extra strain on the belts. They turn the camshafts, that's it. 

 

Jakethewhite, as long as you didn't pull the distributor, it will be set just the same as before the belt change. Just make sure the crank is on it's mark, and one camshaft mark is straight up and one is straight down.



#34 idosubaru

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 11:42 PM

I'd get a free FSM or check here and get your distributor right. It's probably off if you pulled it out. They're easy to install out of time.

Timing belts:
When one timing mark is at noon the other is at 6pm exactly. Is this the case. Use a straight edge and take your time to check.

Is it *perfectly* aligned?

Edited by idosubaru, 19 August 2017 - 11:42 PM.


#35 subnz

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:04 AM

Agree usually this means that the tensioner / toothed idler need to be replaced as well

If the belts are left uncovered

- run the risk of contamination or of something going through causing (early) belt failure ie stone etc.

 

Made the mistake of of not replacing toothed idler (replaced tensioners) at 2nd belt change on Ea82 (the 1st belt change I'd done on an EA82 Subaru about 20 years ago.

About a year after this, the unreplaced toothed idler seized destroying the left belt - one learns from making these mistakes.

 

Its easy to make the mistake of not replacing toothed idler / tensioners if they are turning freely - need to have new / replacement ones to compare the differences between old and new.

Usually if the tensioners can be spun at a zillion mph - they are worn out.

 

Agree also - usual cam pulley timing mark positions : right cam pulley timing mark at &12 o'clock position.

                                                                                     left cam pulley timing mark at 6 o'clock position

180 degrees between the two,     ( with the  flywheel cam belt timing mark  -  pointing at the middle of the 3 timing lines on flywheel) 

 

Also agree left timing belt is doing more work driving oil pump and distributor as well, perhaps causing issues if these components defective or distributor out of phase if removed / replaced in incorrect position.

 

Assuming cam timing correct - To rephase /  reposition distributor correctly if it was removed

 

Need to take out no. 1 cylinder spark plug and rotate engine with finger or compression tester gauge over spark plug hole to determine compression stroke - continue turning engine (crank) clockwise and stop when timing marks line up in fly wheel inspection hole at 0 degrees TDC

 

Replace distributor in position with rotor pointing at no.1 spark plug lead position on distributor cap and reluctor ( 4 star rotor) and stator poles (two pronged thingy) are aligned ( hitachi distributor)

May take several attempts to engage sprockets on cam and distributor shaft to achieve this correct position

Fine adjustment / correct timing achieved by rotating  distributor on base plate

 

Also agree 50 - 60K is usual life span for belts / pulleys - changed mine at 60K (100K km as recommended)


Edited by subnz, 21 August 2017 - 01:31 AM.


#36 DaveT

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 07:44 AM

The timing belt install marks are 3 lines on the flywheel, not the zero TDC timing mark.

#37 scoobiedubie

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 08:13 PM

Sorry man, but you just can't be giving out advice like that.

 

1. The timing belt will never skip teeth unless it is horribly loose.

 

2. Nothing whatsoever can put extra strain on the belts. They turn the camshafts, that's it. 

 

Jakethewhite, as long as you didn't pull the distributor, it will be set just the same as before the belt change. Just make sure the crank is on it's mark, and one camshaft mark is straight up and one is straight down.

Sorry dude.  But you just can't be giving out bad advice like that.  The belts have jumped cambelt teeth on me, several times.  So now you know that you are wrong.



#38 Subaru Scott

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 10:55 PM

Sorry dude.  But you just can't be giving out bad advice like that.  The belts have jumped cambelt teeth on me, several times.  So now you know that you are wrong.

No, sorry. I'm not wrong. You, obviously, must have some stuck valves, seizing camshafts, idlers or oil pump, or no idea how to tension belts.

 

They do not "skip" ever, unless you have issues MUCH more critical than how old your belts are. 

 

If you could load a house on your roof rack, it would not put even the tiniest bit of extra strain on your camshaft belts. 

 

The distributor can in no way ever "feedback" torque to the camshaft, no matter how the plug wires are located, or the way it is positioned. It is driven by a wormgear. So that means even if you put a breaker bar on the distributor, you would break the distributor shaft before you would turn anything. All it does is spin around sending signals and spark. There are NO forces going on in the distributor.

 

I don't know who is feeding you this "information," but you should stop listening to them and read more...  :)



#39 Jakethewhite

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 11:17 PM

No, sorry. I'm not wrong. You, obviously, must have some stuck valves, seizing camshafts, idlers or oil pump, or no idea how to tension belts.


They do not "skip" ever, unless you have issues MUCH more critical than how old your belts are.

If you could load a house on your roof rack, it would not put even the tiniest bit of extra strain on your camshaft belts.

The distributor can in no way ever "feedback" torque to the camshaft, no matter how the plug wires are located, or the way it is positioned. It is driven by a wormgear. So that means even if you put a breaker bar on the distributor, you would break the distributor shaft before you would turn anything. All it does is spin around sending signals and spark. There are NO forces going on in the distributor.

I don't know who is feeding you this "information," but you should stop listening to them and read more... :)





True

#40 subnz

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 01:20 AM

The timing belt install marks are 3 lines on the flywheel, not the zero TDC timing mark.

 Yeah thanks - forgot to mention that in my essay / explanatiion



#41 idosubaru

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 11:52 PM

The belts have jumped cambelt teeth on me, several times. So now you know that you are wrong.

the point isn't if it happens - the point is that it's not normal and something causes it.

One should never have the attitude that they "just randomly jump" time sometimes.

A properly running EA82 doesn't skip teeth. brand new off the showroom floor they were never skipping teeth.

So yes it happens - but finding and repairing the issue that caused it is the issue.




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