Bratastick Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Brought this baby home about two weeks ago. I've got it stashed in my barn for now, but hope to get started on it sometime this winter. It was actually under a "shed" and apparently under there for about 25 years. The last registration date was 1991. It has t-tops, a third eye headlight and a dirty but good condition interior. I'm not sure if the roll bar is a factory option or if the brush guard is factory. Jump seats are missing. The PO purchased it used at a dealership in 1986 and I'm thinking they may have removed them prior to selling it. I have his bill of sale and if the odo is working it looks like he drove it less than 4k after purchase. It's showing 98k now. PO son said they he never did drive it a lot that he had trouble with the carburetor. I haven't gone over it much other than giving it a quick pressure wash removing its 25 year protective coating. One rear was initially frozen up, but after winching it over pavement it freed up. The engine turns easily with a wrench. I did check under the air cleaner and it has the Carter single barrel carb so that may explain the PO carb issue. With no real history on the car what do you think the first steps should be? I can smell old gas in the tank but haven't seen any leaks so hopefully it's ok and will only need to be cleaned. http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/gntmkt/library/Brat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 (edited) Right off the bat DRAIN THE TANK!! Then new fuel filters 3of them. Take the lines off and blow air backwards thru them. Next up a full tuneup plugs wires cap rotor the works. Pull the carb, do a basic cleanup with carb cleaner and compressed air. Put everything back together and try it out. It should at least fire and try to run. From there its a matter of tinkering and tuning. After it runs a bit change the fuel filter. Keep the last one with you as you start driving it, just in case. Edited November 14, 2016 by crazyhorse001 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I doubt the clutch has been replaced so i would pull the engine out and just reseal the whole thing since it has 34 year old gaskets. All the fluids should be changed to start off including the transaxle and rear diff. It has a carter weber intake so you will need to find a hitachi intake to be able to swap a weber 32/36 carburetor onto. The carter weber carbs suck and a stock hitachi is a upgrade if that means anything to you. I would -replace all the engine seals; the short block should be fine -reseal or replace the oil pump -put on a new water pump -replace thermostat -replace temp sensor and thermo switch -do the head gaskets (have the heads machined, valves ground, and new valve stem seals) -re-ring the pistons or if your up for it put in ea82 spfi pistons for a compression increase -replace all the hoses everywhere including fuel, water, and vacuum -drain the tank, replace filters, replace pump. (the pump most likely will die if it hasn't already from setting so long) -new cap, rotor, spark plugs and wires -the brake system will probably be rusty and shot after setting this long. If your lucky only the rear wheel cylinders will be bad. Great time to upgrade to rear disk brakes. -suspension bushings are bound to shot also so you should look into replacing them with super pro and white line bushings -shocks and struts will be shot and need to be replaced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I'd at least get it running before going in too deep. If it has a bad bottom end, you'll wanna know before forking out for gaskets twice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 I'd at least get it running before going in too deep. If it has a bad bottom end, you'll wanna know before forking out for gaskets twice That's kinda the spot I'm in. I really don't have any history on the car so don't want to jump in head first. My main question is there something in particular I should look for here at the beginning? A buddy of mine had an old V8 he was trying to bring back to life after it had set up for 20 plus years and he ended up bending some pushrods because several intake valves were gummed up and wouldn't move. Is there anything like that I should possibly be aware of before I throw a battery in it and start cranking? I figure I'll clean the fuel system first. Maybe try and clean out the Carter and then just see if it will crank and run. If it does then I can go through with a full rework of all the old systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 That is an AWESOME score, If you paid less than $2k and it runs, you stole that! I agree you should clean the fuel system and get it running first to evaluate, then follow Turbosubarubrat's advice. Doing it now will save you a lot of little headaches down the road. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Is there an actual drain on the tank, or do I just need to pull it off to get it completely empty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbus Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 There should be a little drain plug at the bottom of the tank that'll drain it out pretty well. If the gas looks rusty/really dirty, go ahead and remove the tank and clean it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Nice find. And she "Cleaned up good". As stated, drain tank, blow out all of the fuel lines. Be prepared to buy a new fuel pump. I'd pull the plugs and turn it over by using a socket on the crank bolt, maybe even put some oil in the cylinders while doing so. Then, if things seem okay, spin it over with the starter, (plugs still out), until I see oil pressure build on the gauge. Definitely will need to replace all 7 coolant hoses, accessory drive belts, and the likes. Fresh fluids thru out... Just about every seal/gasket on that one has dried out. (engine, trans, wheel bearings). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 Nice find. And she "Cleaned up good". As stated, drain tank, blow out all of the fuel lines. Be prepared to buy a new fuel pump. I'd pull the plugs and turn it over by using a socket on the crank bolt, maybe even put some oil in the cylinders while doing so. Then, if things seem okay, spin it over with the starter, (plugs still out), until I see oil pressure build on the gauge. Definitely will need to replace all 7 coolant hoses, accessory drive belts, and the likes. Fresh fluids thru out... Just about every seal/gasket on that one has dried out. (engine, trans, wheel bearings). That seems like a good plan. The cleaned up photo is a bit misleading. It was still wet from the washing so it did look pretty nice. Once dry the paint is pretty faded and dull. Don't know if it will polish up any or not. There are a couple of large areas on the hood without any paint and they have rusted. The rot is limited to a couple of places behind the front wheel wells, but really not that bad. Still has the original carpet in the back and surprisingly the bed shows little rust. I'm anxious to get started on it, although there are a number of things around the house that I've got to get done first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Still, she looks a lot better after the wash than she did sitting under all that dust. And I can so relate to your last sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I didn't see it listed above, but turn over the engine by hand with a breaker bar / socket BEFORE you try to use the starter... you want to make sure it turns over several revolutions and nothing is binding up before you hit it with all the torque from the starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 did all brats have the brat decal on the rear pillar? This one does not and was wondering if it's been removed during a repaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 did all brats have the brat decal on the rear pillar? This one does not and was wondering if it's been removed during a repaint. Not all of them did. People make reproduction decals if you want them and i heard the dealer still has 1 color left in stock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 Well I pulled the top of the Carter carb off to see how bad it might be. Hoping to get it to work enough to check out the rest of the engine and drive train. I would usually pull the whole carb, disassemble and soak. But knowing there are no parts available I figured a complete tear down would likely tear up more stuff than I could get back together. Lots of varnish in the float bowl and the acc. pump was basically glued together; main jet also. Soaked the acc. pump and it's in pretty rough shape, doubt it going to do much pumping. Pulled the jets and I'm almost ready to put it all back together. The main metering needle is stuck in the main jet so I'm soaking it. Hopefully it will break free. I pulled the front fuel filter and it seems clear so I'm going to reuse it for my testing. Drained the tank and got about 1.5 gallons of really nasty fuel. Probably 25 years old, really smelly. I thought I'd run the fuel pump and see if it would pump some new fuel through the lines but I can't get it to activate. It could be gummed up. Do I need to actually tap the starter for the pump to activate or should it activate by just turning the key on? I've got an older VW and the pump in it will run for a few seconds with key on then shut off unless the engine is running. I was a bit startled when trying to get the pump to run. I dropped a battery in it and decided to crank the engine over a bit with my son watching for problems under the hood. I cranked it over just a little and dang if it didn't try to start. I mean it actually hit and would have run if I hadn't quickly turned the key off. I had sprayed some carb cleaner down the carb earlier and I guess that's what it hit off of. Pretty exciting! Really makes me want to get it going. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Fuel pump won't run until the Fuel Pump Control Unit (FPCU) sees pulses from the distributor. The FPCU is bolted above the hood release handle. I would run a Hot wire from battery to the connection at the pump, using the body for the ground. See if pump will run. Been a few years since I've looked, but new pumps were listed from $25. to $50. on various sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colemanapp Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I would try and get a look inside the gas tank before firing it up. Those tanks get lots of corrosion above the gas line so if it didn't have much gas and you end up putting more in it, its going to possibly clog up all your lines, filter, carb once you get it going and then back to square one cleaning all that out. Did the exact same thing with a gl wagon that sat 10 years without running. Ended up having to drop the tank, fill with clean gravel, shake and clean out that residue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I'd get a generic carb fuel pump, drop a hose into a gas can. Yet away on the engine and carb. Yes, it tried to run on the carb cleaner. That stuff is great for checking for lack of fuel and helping clearing flooding. The old gas could be making the old pump stuck. It might be saved by removing and filling with cleaner, and or disassembly depending on how it's built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 Ok, I've pulled the pump off and connected it directly with a battery. I've run some cleaner through it and it does pump and will provide pressure. When free flowing fuel it pulses and I can hear whatever inside making a thumping noise. If I constrict the output with my finger it builds pressure and the thumping noise goes away. Is this normal operation. Other electric fuel pumps I've fooled with make more of a humm, or high pitched buzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 It sounds like the old electro mechanical pumps I had on my 86 and 87 wagons. A spring pushes the fuel out. A contact makes, and energizes a solenoid. This pulls fuel into the pump body. Contact opens. The spring pushes fuel out. 2 check valves direct the flow in and out. Reducing the output flow increases the time before the contact makes again. Blocking the output stops the fuel from exiting, so the cycle speed drops to zero. Blocking the intake will make it speed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 It sounds like the old electro mechanical pumps I had on my 86 and 87 wagons. A spring pushes the fuel out. A contact makes, and energizes a solenoid. This pulls fuel into the pump body. Contact opens. The spring pushes fuel out. 2 check valves direct the flow in and out. Reducing the output flow increases the time before the contact makes again. Blocking the output stops the fuel from exiting, so the cycle speed drops to zero. Blocking the intake will make it speed up. Well that makes sense and the sound seems appropriate. I expect it's the original fuel pump. Sort of square. I'm going to put new lines to it and put it back in place and see if it will work. I don't have much hope for the original carb. but would be nice if the fuel delivery system was usable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 Pump is back in place with mostly new fuel lines. Looks like the tank line is pretty well stopped up. I've disconnected all the hoses going to the tank including the filler hose, but I can't seem to get it out. Service manual does not say anything about removing additional items to get the tank out. Does it just come out after removing all the bolts do I need to remove the crossmember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) I got the tank out. Had to drop the rear cross member a bit. It's one ugly on the inside---YUCK! Looks like there's an inch of sand in the bottom. I noticed when removing it, it sounded pretty solid and was heavier than I thought it should be. I'm not sure the best way to clean this thing out; you're really only working through two small holes. It also appears there's a baffle inside that has rusted and partially loose. Is there anyway to service the tank pickup? It's buried in the "sand". I'm guessing that once the crud it out it will uncover some pin holes. Any suggestions? Edited January 4, 2017 by Bratastick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colemanapp Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 we removed the panel for the fuel level sender, carefully, and then you have enough room to look inside. theres a mesh sock around the tank outlet, might as well get a coathanger or something and tear that out, it may look like a small sandman at this point. Now I didn't believe the gravel cleanout would work but it worked great. Put some gravel in the tank, like a couple shovels full. Then get a friend and shake that tank with the gravel all around. You'll then dump the gravel and a bunch of the powdered mess in your tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratastick Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 When I cleaned the tank on my 1964 Rambler I used the gravel method. I strapped the tank onto the side of my riding lawnmower, jacked up the back and let it run a while. Did a pretty good job. I ended up having to coat the inside of that tank with epoxy. It was a really open tank, no baffles and no real recesses. The Brat tank is more complicated with tubes running through it and the section in the front is somewhat difficult, you certainly can't see anything up there. I still can believe there is this much crud sitting on the bottom. I may try to run a pressure washer in there first before the gravel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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