DrieStone Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 So I have a weird issue that I just can't for the life of me figure out. I bought my '92 Loyale a few months ago. 118k miles, and I had been driving it regularly. It got cold a few weeks ago and when I tried to start it I could hear what I think is the fuel pump (not sure that's what it is), but when I tried starting the car it wouldn't turn over the starter (I could hear the relay click). Not a weak battery sound (not the "click click click") just nothing at all. The next day it was warmer and started right up. A few days after that I got in to try to start it up and as soon as I switch the car to "on" I get a complete power loss. Dome light and dash lights go out. If I wait 5-10 minutes I'll get my dome light back. I've checked the batter and I get 12V+ on the terminals. I've tried hooking up my battery box (that will start my 4.0L Jeep that currently doesn't have a battery without an issue), but the extra juice doesn't do anything. We had a 50 degree day here recently, and I thought maybe my issue was temperature dependent, but even on that day it presented the same issue. I'm at a total loss here as to what could be wrong. I'm not even sure what to check next! Any thoughts as to what I could check to try to diagnose what is happening? The fact that I eventually get enough power back to run the dome light confuses me. Something gets energized which causes the problem, and it must eventually get discharged which allows power to return to things like the dome light. My thoughts: 1) Bad battery (internal components), so even though it reads the proper voltage something else is wrong once there's a draw on the battery 2) Bad alternator, somehow gets energized and shorts out the electrical? 3) Bad starter? I doubt this because it happens even though I don't even try to start the car? 4) Bad ECU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Not ecu or alternator. Sounds most like a weak connection somewhere. It will carry a small load like done light. But not big current like the starter. Batteryclamp, fusible link box on coolant overflow tank, main connection on back of fuse panel under the dash. I've seen batteries fail internally with similar symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrieStone Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 It's not even the starter that's pulling the voltage (I don't get to the point of starting, just "on"), so a draw like the fuel pump kills it? It all seems sane, except for the part that if I switch it to "off" I don't get the dome light back for 4-5 minutes (or longer). Like something has to discharge before the dome light can pull power to operate. I suppose it could be a weak connection, combined with something else drawing power from the weak connection? I did a visual check of the fusible links, but I don't see any evidence of failure there. I did try hooking my battery box up to the body (ground) and the positive lead (to try to exclude the negative battery terminal and any wiring there). I'm going to try disconnecting the battery completely and using my battery box to see if that does anything. I hate the idea of trying to find a bad wire in the harness. I may have to find a factory manual for the wiring diagram (I have the Hanes, but it's limited). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Factory service manuals are best, complete schematics. Ignition just on, draws about 20 amps for everything trying run. Visual inspection doesn't always work. I don't recall the fuel pump amps, but I don't remember them being extraordinarily high. Not likely a wire this thick is broken inside the harness. It has to be a main feeder to drop everything. Flakey connections are flakey. I've seen a number of corroded / overheated connections in things cause similar behavior. A volt meter or test light at various points along the power distribution circuitry should help locate the point of failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsyme Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I'd slap a battery charger on the battery while it's in the car and try it... this is smell like a failing / bad battery. A blown Fuseable link wouldn't come back on ever. Batteries can be temperature sensitive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoyl Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Ignition switch terminals ? I had a similar issue simply because one of the ignition switch wires decided to start to work it's way off the terminal block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Check the positive cable, turn the key to on and wiggle the cable around and see if you get any action. I have had a similar problem with my 92 legacy, my 77 Camaro and my 86 GL. I suspect that is why the jump box isn't working. Your problem does sound unique as you get failure when you turn your key to on. With my issues, everything would work with the key turned to on, then I would experience a complete failure of the electrical system when I tried to engage the starter, until I screwed with the cable. Do the accessories work with the key in acc? Try to take a piece of wire and hot jump the starter with your battery charger connected (make sure you have the car in neutral!) if the starter kicks over, then it's not the cable. If you still have the problem, then remove the ignition cylinder and try to hot wire the ignition to eliminate that being the cause of your problem. Or power probe the hot side of the ignition switch, or that little box that the alternator is wired to if you don't want to take the ignition cylinder out. The same one you mentioned with the fusible links. Good luck man! Electrical problems can be a huge headache! Edited December 22, 2016 by sparkyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Clean your battery cables and check voltage inside the car like at the cigerete lighter or fuse block my imprezza just did the same thing it was bad battery had 12v but wouldent even run the led dome light but yours sounds like a dirty battery cable and cleaning a cable is free so its a good place to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I've checked the batter and I get 12V+ on the terminals. I've tried hooking up my battery box (that will start my 4.0L Jeep that currently doesn't have a battery without an issue), but the extra juice doesn't do anything. This is pretty definitive. There's plenty of power at the battery, but only a trickle is getting to the car. Bad connection, almost exclusively. I like to turn the parking lights on (presumably they will not come on), and then start wiggling the main battery wires (positive between the battery and fuse box, and negatives) until they actually light up. That'll give you a pretty good idea of where your bad connection is. If wiggling things around doesn't give any change, then grab some jumper cables, and just hook up one black clamp to the negative battery terminal, and try the other one on a few solid grounds, both on the engine and the body. I've seen where the insulation on one of the battery cables gets damaged slightly, and moisture can get in, and corrode the copper, but the wire still looks good. Luckily, the fact that nothing works, pretty much limits you to 4 or 5 connections, and about 4 feet of wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 DEFINITELY clean the terminals, battery posts, make sure they're good and tight. I'd throw a battery charger or jump pack on while trying again as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edian727 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 i agree with numbchux. probably a crack in the insulation in the main positive wire and its corrodes. I've had corroded wire stop giving power but when i came back later it would power on to the same point before it shut off, just like is happening to you. great thing about subaru is the wire is so short, cheap and easy to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeryst Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I had the same issue and a new battery fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 A battery can show 12v and still be bad. What does it show when you turn the key on. If it still shows 12v you need to start following the wire checking for voltage. Wherever it stops, that, or the last part will be your problem area. Either the component, or the wiring between them. Electrical troubleshooting is a process of elimination. When you rule out enough possibilities, you end up with the culprit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrieStone Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 I wanted to follow up on this since I found and repaired the issue. I checked the battery and saw good voltage. I removed the negative battery terminal and used my battery box (attached to hot and ground) to see if the car would start (taking the battery out of the loop) to no avail. I was going to check the fusable links (I think I was going to jumper the battery to the side of the fusable links). I don't remember if I wiggled the positive terminal or what... but under the plastic covering the clamp had degraded and was quite thin. With some wiggling of the positive terminal the car was able to start. I replaced the positive battery clamp with a new unit and it's been working flawlessly since. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Good work man! Glad you got it fixed :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 nice! happy to hear it's running good for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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