WJM Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Insane GL-10 project...or not? Goals: 1. Make as fast as WRX in a stright line (up to 120 MPH at least) 2. Make lateral G's equal or better than showroom stock USDM STi 3. Make it killer on an autocross course and track (lower speeds, below 140) 4. Make show quality. (Hot Imports Nights.....gave me some ideas....but no fancy crap) 5. Make it reliable enough for still remain preactical for Daily Driver. Tall order...or short order? Who says go for it, and who says no way? Is it possible? Yes... no doubt. Ive got the magic recipie for the engine...and im almost there on suspension....just need some $ for the engine stuff...and some materials for the suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Anything is possible and it is all a matter of time, money, and dedication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Time I have right now....i dont really have a job. Money I dont have at all. Dedication comes and goes as I see things on the new subarus there already make them faster from the factory....but then i see that I dont have the $ to just buy it...and I think, I'll make the wagon as faster or faster...then the dedication comes back. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 The toughest bit I think would be getting it to handle as good as an sti while still being a bearable daily driver. You are dealing with an inferior suspension design, so you would have to go stiff and low to compensate. Then theres the geometry to figure out. You could end up with a car that gets numbers on the skidpad and slalom that are as good as an sti, but without the manners/balance/predictability that an sti has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Yeah....im close to hitting it right. All i need to do is get the rear ride hieght correct, front bump stops, and proper or close to proper dampening...and ive got it. Oh and the all important spring perch re-enforcements on the front struts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobywagon Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I don't think that's as tall an order as it sounds. the WRX and STi are very heavy cars. Granted, your wagon is also, but my 81 is a LOT lighter than an STi. I can't remember what the numbers were, but a friend and I weighed them out at a local truck scale. So really, you don't NEED 300hp to motivate that wagon into STi territory. The handling is going to be the tough part, but I'd think that appropriate parts from KYB or Tokico could resolve most of that. Sway bars and such would need to be worked out as would appropriate spring rates. Then again, since you'd probably want to do the 5-lug conversion, you might also be able to swap in some other suspension goodies from a late impreza. That'd definately help out, I think, but it would also introduce some geometry problems. Sounds interesting. I say go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subynut Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Nuts, yes. Crazy, maybe. Insane? Nope. I'd say go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 What you are suggesting in this project is not so far fetched even given the limitations of the stock chassis. I would flat out use the modern EJ25 power plant and tranny. But the suspension and chassis can be worked with. For comparison look at the Datsun 510. I have seen them eat up an autocross course faster than the newest Nissan offering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88rxsedan Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 What you are suggesting in this project is not so far fetched even given the limitations of the stock chassis. I would flat out use the modern EJ25 power plant and tranny. But the suspension and chassis can be worked with. For comparison look at the Datsun 510. I have seen them eat up an autocross course faster than the newest Nissan offering.hes not out of whack, it acutally wouldnt be that bad..hell, look at the xt's handling in comparison to the 82's... hmmm,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Yeah, according to numbers Ive seen, the GL-10 puts in at around 2700-2800....thats about 200-300 lbs lighter. I am only shooting for 200-250 hp with mostly stock stuff....internals *ex. cams* ECU, fuel system and some other things.... I think the handling can be sorted with some victoracers and camber. (of course, other things too) I am NOT going to do 5 lug. I will go with either peugeot wheels or stay with 13's....as you can get some really beeft R compounds for it....plus Ive got about 60 tires for FREE....they are all 205/60-13 BFG Comp TA's....the Victoracers are only about $97 a peice from tire rack. I am NOT going to do an EJ conversion. Im going to stay with old skool stuff. RX trans, LSD. RX dampers to start with (maybe move to GR2 and AGX if they are not strong enough). Ive got an XT6 clutch set attached to an 18lb flywheel.... And that magic engine recipie I was talking about. Lower control arm bushings. Some rear suspension bushings. Rear Toe.....out! Strut tower brace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Sorry to be a wet blanket here, but the suspension on a stock EA82 series car is not capable of the same lateral G's of a RS, let along a STi. The geometry just isn't there. Another thing, projects like this take money, lots of money, in fact money would be the driving force, far more then time would be. The only advantage that going 5 lug gives you is a wider choice of wheels and tires, the that would help a little, but still not anywhere near what you are looking for. I would say that number 1, 4 and 5 are easy to achieve. As for #3, you could make a great rallyX car, but an autocrosser would be average at best. And as I stated above, #2 without total redoing the suspension will never happen. I think your goals are admirable, but your means are good enough to get the job done. Please don't consider this a flame in any way, I just want you to understand what you are up against before you start down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 I think....that its not going to take that much $ to get it as fast as a stock WRX......IF i had the cash at this time to spend on it, Id say it woudl take between 3 and 4 thousand to make it right and as fast as the stock WRX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myxalplyx Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I think....that its not going to take that much $ to get it as fast as a stock WRX......IF i had the cash at this time to spend on it, Id say it woudl take between 3 and 4 thousand to make it right and as fast as the stock WRX. Well, you already know that all you need is a couple of TWE parts (if they come out) to get it up to speed with a stock WRX. In a straight line anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Yep. I dont have the $ to buy the TWE stuff, but I have the stuff to make some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Nothing like AGXs are going to get an EA81 suspension up to STI specs and 250 in the powerband the 1.8ltr can deliver will not give you the performance of the EJ turbos. While the car is capable of matching the modern subes you are looking at real parts and an investment in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp3 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Nothing like AGXs are going to get an EA81 suspension up to STI specs and 250 in the powerband the 1.8ltr can deliver will not give you the performance of the EJ turbos. While the car is capable of matching the modern subes you are looking at real parts and an investment in them. AGXes are quite capable struts. I loved the set I had on my 2.5RS (I have since gone to DMS Gold coilovers). Don't forget that the stock stuff on modern Subarus is KYB anyway, the AGXes are practically the same part but with variable settings. As for acceleration, like it was noted above, the new cars are notably heavier than the older ones. This is one of the reasons my 2.5RS hangs with the local WRXes at autocross in SM, even though I'm only making about 192 or so hp to the flywheel currently. WRXs are like 3200+ lbs and the STi is even heavier! My 2.5RS weighs in a 2840 stock and the 80s scoobies (even the wagons) are lighter than that. I think a reasonable power/weight ratio could be extracted from these cars given their relatively low starting weights. For example, with a 2700lb GL-10 wagon vs a stock engine (227hp) 3200lb WRX, you only need 192hp to have the same power/weight ratio. That's 35hp you don't have to make to get the same acceleration results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Way to go Shane! The RX coupes are 2670....id like to get my racer RX back up and going, but its just...alot of work that needs to get done on it for it to roar to life again. It stripped down, so I imagine that its around 2300 lbs as it sits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 I dont care about seeing who gets it done first.....i just care about it getting done and proven that it CAN be done, im tired of people thinking it cannot be done. I want to go kick some butt with this old stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 A set of AGXs, while an upgrade is not going to close the handeling gap between the two cars, ever. It will take something on the order of a Tein or DMS set as well as other upgrades just to come close to doing that. You not only have to match what the newer suspension is capable of in damping and spring rate, you have to overcome geometry issues. I am full aware of the power to weight issues, that is why I was attempting to focus on the delivery of that power which the 1.8 simply cannot do in the same way as the newer EJs. And at that power level his engine will not be a reliable daily driver. Having a built RS turbo myself I am well familiar with what you are saying. My point above is that it is all fine and good to want to have an EA81 era car that will keep pace with the latest from Subaru and that it can be done just as a 510 can be built to outperform a stock new production Nissan Z series. But it won't be done without major work and high end components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp3 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 May I suggest given these plans that you choose the GC8 knuckles and braking system, your going to need it It's very little extra work compared to the XT6 knuckles, minus reworking the e-brakes, but can you say aftermarket - old school drivetrain yes, but don't skimp on the brakes! I don't believe Will is opting for a 5-lug swap on his car, so this won't be much use to him. I *am* doing the 5-lug on my car and to start with I am using the stock XT6 braking setup (which is already larger than the L-series stuff anyway) but with upgraded pads. I've definitely pondered swapping on a 2.5RS OE brake setup (or something similar), but as you mentioned there is always the e-brake issue to consider. Considering the 2.5RS setup isn't THAT much bigger, does a GREAT job of stopping the 2.5RS (even with R-compounds), and is on a 200-lb heavier car, I think the XT6 setup will be sufficient for my needs for the time being (though having Impreza/Legacy/Forester brake swap options is definitely nice, should the need arise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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