RCWD21 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think this is my first post, can't really remember seeing as I already had an account in here and somehow didn't remember it but here's my problem. It's a 98 impreza wagon with a SOHC 2.2 that last night I smelt coolant coming from the front of the car. I popped the hood and noticed that the area around the resovoir was wet from coolant. Since it was still hot I left it for this morning. *As an additional note I replacemed the radiator back in June or july before my trip to ohio from southern north carolina. This issue has just presented itself right when I'm about the sell the car in a few weeks to a buddy of mine so you can imagine my aggravation. This morning I popped the cap off and coolant was really low to the point that I couldn't see any in the tubes. I filled it up and started it up so it could run and warm up. It overflowed just and little bit out of the radiator and I thought it was good to go, then I looked over at the resovoir and noticed it was below the low mark by maybe a half an inch. I filled it up just above the full mark. I let it run with the cap off for a while until the temp gauge was in the middle where it normally is. Drove about 3 miles got home and checked it again. Noticed the resovoir was about double of what I put in it before the drive. Now I get intermittent bubbles in the resovoir sometimes more extreme than others. It hasn't overflowed on me today as it seems to have found a level it has stayed at. Here's where I get concerned though, the upper hose feels like it's completely empty sometimes and with a hot engine I can remove the cap within probably 10 minutes after cutting the car off. I've read that HG failures on 2.2s are very rare and that it is more than likely a cap issue but with the bubbles and the lowering coolant level in the radiator I fear that it may in fact be head gaskets. The car has never overheated on me and always has good heat where it will literally cook you out of the car on full blast. Could this be a bad cap issue? If so where is the air coming from while it's running? The cap appears to be in good condition and the seals are clean and crack free. Would a compression test tell me anything? And is it possible that there's still just a good bit of air in the system from having the radiator replaced and block flushe'd back in June or july? Anyone that could help me on this would really make my day.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Phase I EJ22's can fail too sometimes, particular if they've been overheated before. A bad radiator and you're likely not the first owner makes it hard to verify history. You want to positively burp the system, verify absolutley that there are no leaks, and replace the radiator cap. They can take forever to fill - if yours has the bleeder screw on the top passengers side end of the radiator (they don't all have it), open that while you fill it. Sometimes they seemingly take forever to drink enough coolant, laboriously slow going in. Fill it - drive it - cool down - fill it - drive it - cool down. That'll get all the air out eventually. Is it positively a Phase I 1998 EJ22? Phase II EJ22's in 1999 are more notable for headgaskets. But the earlier ones can fail too sometimes, particular if they've been overheated before. A bad radiator and you're likely not the first owner makes it hard to verify history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Compression tests are usually pointless but you can try, sometimes they show something. Testing for hydrocarbons in the coolant is more definitive. The high end electronic testers that some shops have being more accurate than the auto parts store liquid kits, but those can work too. Some people like pressurizing the cooling system I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) I didn't see the first reply so I'm adding this in in order, I'm not 100% sure it's a phase one but it doesn't have as many bolts as a phase 2 2.5 out of an 03 outback (only engine I can use for comparison) I believe the difference was 4 bolts for phase 1 and 8 bolts for phase 2? I can't remember. Another edit, the radiator was only replaced due to a small heat crack in the upper plastic end cap on the radiator, it was replaced as soon as I noticed the crack. Well here's the problem with the hydrocarbon test, no one around here has that sort of test equipment, and no one around here is familiar with subarus besides doing inspections.. would the bubbles showing up in the resovoir smell like exhaust by any chance? All I smell is the sweet smell of coolant. Could I still have trapped air in the system? Since filling it up this morning it hasn't overflowed but it has risen about double of thè high mark. Would a bap cap potentially allow air in when it's cooling down and then when the engine is run its burping that air back out acting as a HG issue? Edited January 9, 2017 by RCWD21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I doubt it, but an old cap can probably do things I'm not aware of. pull the cap and look at the base seal condition and clean it up if it looks all crusted up. you can google radiator subaru cap failure and see if someone has the symptoms oyu're describing. it's often hard to find someone who can absoulutely verify it was a failed radiator cap and not some other issue that presented a month after they said it was "fixed" with a new radiator cap (that happens often). 4 bolt would be phase I and 98 just like you said. - if it was manufactured in 1998 (stamped on the VIN plate) then it's actually a 1999 vehicle and Phase II. but honestly that matters not here, you have symptoms presenting and you probably know the year of your vehicle. ocassionally people say the build date as the year of the vehicle which confuses things but with symptoms it hardly matters now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 The manufacturer date on Vin plate by the door says 4/98 so would that be a 99? Now I'm kinda curious lol I just checked it after cooling down for about an hour and the level in the radiator is up where it should be and the resovoir has lowered a bit so I'm really hoping it's just air trapped in the system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just drove it to walmart (about 4 mile round trip) and the resovoir level stayed where it was when I left. So far so good but I'll check the radiator again once it's cooled down more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Keep checking it. Before each drive. If it begins to behave normally, maybe Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Is it normal for a ton of air to be trapped in the cooling system? I've never had an engine be this hard to burp.. I'll be replacing the front catalytic converter once it arrives as the one in it has broken apart. So when it's up on ramps I'll check everything over and see if I see any other issues and run it with the cap off more just to make sure there's no air in the system. If anyone has any other ideas or possibilities for me to check feel free to post them on here, but I'll keep this updated so it's not one of those open ended threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I don't open the cap since it allows air in the system. Even if it's only the air that gets it the line to the recovery tank. Sharply pinch the upper hose, listen for gurgles and the jiggle pin. After a number of times you get to know what normal sounds like. Should be mostly water. And watch the level on the tank, should not be consistently raising or lowering every day. Search for small leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) When I got home earlier I squeezed the upper hose and could hear the jiggle pin in the thermostat and felt resistance from the hose being full of coolant. The level in the resovoir stabilized on my last drive, it may have moved a bit but it wasn't super full like previous times. I'm starting to believe it's just a lot of trapped air but we'll find out here in the next couple days. Edited January 9, 2017 by RCWD21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The manufacturer date on Vin plate by the door says 4/98 so would that be a 99? Now I'm kinda curious lol I just checked it after cooling down for about an hour and the level in the radiator is up where it should be and the resovoir has lowered a bit so I'm really hoping it's just air trapped in the system... mfg. date of 4/98 would definitely be a 98 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 mfg. date of 4/98 would definitely be a 98 model. That's what I thought with it being before 6/98. I'm about to go check the resovoir and see if it's lowered any since it's had a chance to cool down so hopefully everything is ok. I'd hate to sell the car and then it burn up on someone from it overheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Best to check cold. No pressure from the expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just drive a week and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Well if in the morning everything is good to go I'll just keep an eye on it for a while, but this Saturday will be a test for it. I'm heading to a junkyard about 2 hours away and most of the cruising speed is anywhere from 70 to 80 and then from there I'm heading down south about 4 hours. If it can handle that then I think we'll be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 They can be a pain to get all the air out of. So far you haven't replaced or repaired anything? That would certainly be weird for a random symptomatic event, there is always causation, nothing is grey or ambiguous outside of quantum mechanics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 The only thing replaced was the radiator but that was back in June or July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Slow leak caused low coolant. At some point, this will cause overheating, which usually causes headgasket failure. If it's mild, it can be a very small fail, leaking combustion gasses into the coolant system. Usually gets worse over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Well here's the thing, it never leaked. It was on the top most part of the radiator. It wouldn't leak a drop u til the engine was up to temp and very hot with the addition of me squeezing the hell out of the upper hose. It was always full of coolant. I'm starting to think I never got 100% of the air out when I replaced the radiator because today the level in the resovoir only rose a little bit on my 3 mile drive to work and I didn't see any bubbles when I got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 After about 4 hours of driving tonight the resovoir has begun filling up again and the upper hose feels empty when I squeeze it. When I squeeze the hose I can hear the jiggle ball on the thermostat rattle. I'm going to replace the cap tomorrow and see if it changes anything even though the current cap appears good, both rubber seals look brand new which only leaves the pressure spring in the cap it self. The temp gauge never moves from just below the middle and the engine doesn't run any hotter than normal. There are no leaks that I have found, only the bubbles which are either exhaust gasses or air expanding and escaping. When the engine cools down the resovoir lowers again. Shouldnt the upper hose be full at all times when the engine is hot? And also with an exhaust gas leak into the cooling system wouldn't the coolant be able to push it's way into a cylinder or cylinders once the engine is shut off since the pressure in the cooling system is now higher than that in a cylinder? And obviously if it were to leak back into a cylinder wouldn't I be able to smell coolant being burnt off once I start the car the next morning? Sorry about all the questions, this is just really confusing to me since the bubbles are intermittent sometimes there's a good amount and other times there aren't any.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The bubbles can be intermittent. Yes, the upper hose should be full of water always, hot or cold. The pressure inside the combustion chamber is many times higher than the 13lbs or so that the cooling system operates at. Gasses are a lot smaller than water molecules. The headgasket leaks I am talking about are tiny tiny gaps or channels. I've been through a number of these failures. I've seen tiny leaks - a slightly loose hose clamp, let's a drop or 2 of coolant out and it lands on the block and evaporates, leaving no trace. If the loss is not caught by checking often enough becomes big enough to over normal the temperature, it starts the process. If they system is intact, and sealed, and not going over temperature, eventually the air will work it's way out. I've had some where a tiny amount of air seems to hang around forever. Keep watching it closely. Make sure you find and check all of the several hoses in the cooling system. Check the weep hole on the water pump. Check the radiator where the tubes solder to the endplates, and everywhere else. I had one where coolant would seep out of the headgasket onto the block and evaporate. Sometimes the only way I ever found these slow leaks was the eventual build up of stuff drying out of the coolant water solution. I have driven engines with the slow leak for weeks or months before the failure progressed to the point of making it impossible to run without overheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCWD21 Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 The only place I haven't checked is the weep hole on the water pump but other than that I've found no leaks. I even pulled the plugs this morning and they're all burning like they should be. All in all the engine runs fantastic. The only real problem with the car is the front pinion shaft bearing has gone bad and taken the seal out with it. I'm having the hardest time finding the transmission that matches my gearing. So for a problem like this to show up now is really aggrivating because now it's something else I have to worry about and keep an eye on.. I wish the gaskets would just go ahead and fail so I could know that they were bad like a normal head gasket failure does when a coolant jacket leaks. Would any of the block sealants work in this case? I know to stay away from barrs stop leak and things like that because they do more harm than good, but what about the subaru coolant conditioner I've been reading about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 www.car-part.com for matching transmissions. i'm sure you know the side front differential seals are directional if you end up replacing those. Subaru coolant conditioner is specifically for external Phase II headgasket leaks. I'd try it on an older Phase I engine if it had external headgasket leaks. For an internal leak, i don't think there's many data points to make any judgement calls on it, but most people guess it's not likely to be a great long term repair. those Phase I EJ22 headgaskets are the easiest subaru headgaskets to do - they're actually quite simple since all the head bolts are external. can easily be done with the engine in the vehicle. resurface heads and use subaru gaskets. i'd be less worried about that than the trans replacement, that's annoying. that being said - the engine and transmission can be pulled together as one lump through the engine bay if you have a lift and inclination to do it all at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Plugs condition and running great is completely normal for this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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