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FIXED! Bad Neutral Switch Assembly causing HEAVY engine breaking


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-----SKIP TO 2018 POSTS FOR THIS FIX------

 

Hey everyone curious if you could help me with something I've been pondering for a while concerning my 88 GL. Generally if I am in a high rev range say 3,000 and I let off the throttle the engine breaks really hard. so much so that my body is jolted a bit inside the car. I feel it most in gears 1-3, and less in 4 or 5, but it's happens in every gear.

 

This is my first manual transmission, in other (automatic) cars have driven when you let off the throttle, no matter the speed, you just kind of coast. Is what I am experiencing normal for manuals or GL's or older cars?  Is there something i am doing wrong like reving to high and staying in the same gear? 

Any advise would be valuable to me right now, I feel like I'm doing bad things to the engine and I'm hoping senior dog will last for a long while. Let me know what you're thinking.

 

Thanks

Edited by YnotDIY
Updated topic to reflect actual issue
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Does it feel like you are braking? Maybe you are not too smooth on the clutch and gas pedal action???? But I was taught that if you have a full glass of water and your passenger is holding it, you want to shift smooth enough not to spill any from the glass. If you use your girlfriend or wife, make sure you don't spill otherwise you are being slapped.  :D

Edited by Naked Buell
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Yes that's normal. And it is essentially engine braking. Depress the clutch and put the shifter into neutral if you're just coasting to a stop. The key is doing this simultaneously with the release of your gas pedal.

 

Always try and rev match. They syncos will do most of the work in the inside transmission for shifting. Lessen the shock of shifting by rev match. You can also let off of the pedal slower in between gears. Don't just kick it.

 

Practice makes perfect. You're more than likely not causing any harm to the vehicle long as you're not towing anything heavy.

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Does it feel like you are braking? Maybe you are not too smooth on the clutch and gas pedal action???? But I was taught that if you have a full glass of water and your passenger is holding it, you want to shift smooth enough not to spill any from the glass. If you use your girlfriend or wife, make sure you don't spill otherwise you are being slapped.  :D

 

 

Yes that's normal. And it is essentially engine braking. Depress the clutch and put the shifter into neutral if you're just coasting to a stop. The key is doing this simultaneously with the release of your gas pedal.

 

Always try and rev match. They syncos will do most of the work in the inside transmission for shifting. Lessen the shock of shifting by rev match. You can also let off of the pedal slower in between gears. Don't just kick it.

 

Practice makes perfect. You're more than likely not causing any harm to the vehicle long as you're not towing anything heavy.

 

I'm not trying to shift though. It's more like...say I'm in first or second and accelerating to keep the pace with slow traffic. So I get to 3,000 in first or second and traffic is slowing down so I let off the gas without shifting in order to coast or slow a bit. this is when I'm getting the engine breaking or jolting feeling. Is it just me then? Instead of just letting off the gas at 3,000 and staying in the same gear should I just shift it into neutral and coast, then shift back into gear when it's time to move again?

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What you are experiencing is normal. If you push the clutch in when you let off the gas, it won't happen. If your brakes were hanging up enough to cause this, they literally be smoking when you got to where you're going. Auto trannys don't have a direct couple to the engine due to the fluid coupling in the torque converter so when you let off the gas, it allows an almost like neutral coast down. With the clutch, it is directly linked when the clutch is engaged so when you lat off the gas, the engine drags down the tranny and the car.

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Guest Soob4ME

Releasing the throttle as gently as possible will keep the jerking down, if you get good enough it will be a seamless transition. Engine braking saves fuel too.

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Engine braking only saves fuel on EFI cars, not carb'd. With EFI, after a few seconds the ECU goes into decel mode cutting the fuel to protect the cat. With a carb, the engine is still drawing vacuum, so it's still drawing fuel. The fuel savings for EFI cars is miniscule at best.

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sounds normal. 

 

check or replace engine/trans mounts if it's sloppy and severe or noisy due to this.

 

i'm weird and will get belittled for this but i don't do engine braking (except in certain situations - steep snow or towing). probably a pointless distinction to consider but i'd rather extra use/wear be on brake pads than shifter bushings, linkages, synchro's, trans, engine.

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Guest Soob4ME

The fuel savings for EFI cars is miniscule at best.

It's actually pretty noticeable in hilly areas. I can get 28mpg with a 2000 Outback with 260,000 miles on it, 100% local driving. I get the exact same on the interstate lol.

 

i'd rather extra use/wear be on brake pads than shifter bushings, linkages, synchro's, trans, engine.

I can see that. I've gotten very good at seamless downshifts. People who ride in my car say it's smoother than riding in an automatic being driven by an average driver. I've also ridden with people who had driven stick for years and still drove like they were learning. All depends on the individual what gets worn out quickest.

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Yeah, I echo all the other sentiments here.

 

I had a '92 Loyale for almost four years and you're just going to have to learn how to drive your car. 

 

And learn to drive with a clutch.

 

It will be second nature after a while, but you're probably extra paranoid about any weird feelings right now cause it's so new to you.

 

I like to pretend like there's a pulley going all the way through my legs from one foot to the other.

So when I press in the clutch, this imaginary pulley pulls my foot off the gas, and when I press on the gas, the pulley pulls my foot off the clutch.

It's a balance and it's different with every car. 

Just do it slowly until you know where your shift points are and where your clutch engages and disengages.

 

If you can learn to do these things smoothly, everything will feel so buttery and you'll start to boast about how damn good you are at shifting.

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What you are experiencing is normal. If you push the clutch in when you let off the gas, it won't happen. If your brakes were hanging up enough to cause this, they literally be smoking when you got to where you're going. Auto trannys don't have a direct couple to the engine due to the fluid coupling in the torque converter so when you let off the gas, it allows an almost like neutral coast down. With the clutch, it is directly linked when the clutch is engaged so when you lat off the gas, the engine drags down the tranny and the car.

 

Engine braking is way more effective in standard shift cars.  It's the one thing I miss driving automatics.  The lower the gear, and higher the RPM when you let off the gas, the more dramatic it will be.

 

Thanks for easing my concerns, I was driving around today and found if I'm right around 2,000 it's barely noticeable. I'll just have to learn to drive my car better like Mulder said....thanks everyone. 

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  • 1 year later...

Updating this after almost a year with some new information.

I found out the cause of my severe engine braking was actually due to a faulty Neutral Switch Assembly.

According to this thread > https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/34730-neutral-switch-on-manual-trans/ < it's suspected the that the neutral switch assembly keeps the fuel injector spitting fuel into the intake when you take your foot is off the gas while you're in gear.

A faulty switch assembly will cause the injector to immediately cut off fuel, while your off the gas, in gear, and cause you to eat the dash.

I was getting a CODE 51 and investigated. I pulled the Neutral Switch Assembly last night, cleaned it, and re-installed. This fixed my issue.

I'll do a write up on the location of this switch on the trans with images.

Cheers to keeping these old babies running!

 

WOO!

 

Edited by YnotDIY
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Also wanted to link this diagram incase anyone needs it. It's for a Loyale Turbo, which I do not have. (I have a 88 SPFI 4x4 Manual)

but it did help me find the neutral switch as they are in a similar position. Neutral Switch is #7 on the diagram.

 

https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_1990_Loyale-WAGON-TURBO/_80160_6027483/MT--REAR-CASE/A11-120-01.html

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Bought a new Neutral Switch Assembly from the dealer. You can find the part number in the images I've linked. Also for comparison purposes you will see the old switch and new switch side by side below. new switch has black plastic nub. Old switch is off white and quite worn.

After I cleaned and re-installed my old switch I could actually feel it cutting in and out which was making the car jerk a bit in gear. I figured heck it might as well just buy a new one! Got it for $36.

Crazy thing is this switch looks almost the same as the Back Lamp Assembly that turns on the reverse lights for manual transmissions. Only difference I can see are the plugs. Double crazy is that newer Subarus also have this switch....different plugs though, but possible to source these if for some reason they stop producing either the Back Lamp or Neutral Switch.

Cheers ya'll!

Purchase Part Here > https://parts.subaru.com/p/SWITCH-ASSEMBLY-NEUTRAL/49242865/32008AA041.html

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