Loyale not being very loyal

[devingilberto]

Hello!

 

I have a 1993 Loyale with just over 90 on the clock that has just started acting up on me. i have been combing the threads and tried about everything i could find and am still having issues!

 

The main big problem is that it seems to be in some kind of "limp" mode. Absolutely minimal power when you press the accelerator down. i can get it up to about 25 mph and then no faster. Engine is not over heating as far as i can tell but when i run it and it gets to temp and the idle settles down the exhaust manifold seems to overheat. It is burning off old crud and smoking a little.

 

Background: Water pump and cooling fan needed to be replaced. While replacing found that master cylinder and brakes needed some love so they were replaced as well. I got car back and drove for about 4 days before it started doing this limp mode thing out of nowhere. So i started researching on here. I pulled the MAF sensor and it seems to be in good repair and clean. I pulled the exhaust of the engine and checked it doing a vacuum test i found on here. (hook vaccuum up to tail pipe and see if it struggles with manifold disconnected) It passed that test. So i read the code off the ECM. EGR, which seems like an easy fix right? Wrong! Replaced the EGR solenoid and still have the same issue. Back to the drawing board. at this point for some reason the car's idle has started acting very weird. Surgin to 2500 and lowering to about stalling, on and off without rhyme or reason. I read that the Engine temperature sensor can affect idle and fix the speed issue, so i replaced it today. Idle is back to normal and check engine light is gone BUTTTTTTTTT car still has no engine power!!

 

I am at a loss at this point and would appreciate ANY help!! Thanks in advance!

 

-Devin

[Naked Buell]

Did you check your TP sensor. I know of ones that said to check that and it wasn't getting the signal it should be. Check your plugs too and see what they look like. I'm not sure if the 93 loyales had a electronic Distributor, but check that too. 

Oh and check your fuel delivery, maybe not getting enough. Fuel filter? How long ago was that changed?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Naked Buell

[DaveT]

Egr would not have this big of an effect.

 

Starving for fuel comes to mind, since you ruled out some of the others.

[GeneralDisorder]

Check for exhaust back pressure. Clogged cats happen and this fits the symptoms. You will have no end of chasing your tail looking for a solution if you don't check exhaust pressure. 

 

GD

[devingilberto]

Did you check your TP sensor. I know of ones that said to check that and it wasn't getting the signal it should be. Check your plugs too and see what they look like. I'm not sure if the 93 loyales had a electronic Distributor, but check that too. 

Oh and check your fuel delivery, maybe not getting enough. Fuel filter? How long ago was that changed?

what is the TP sensor? you mentioned two other things I have already checked out as well. I replaced all the plugs and replaced what looked like the factory fuel filter. it has a distributor, rotor, wire type setup and I cleaned all the metal inside.

[devingilberto]

Check for exhaust back pressure. Clogged cats happen and this fits the symptoms. You will have no end of chasing your tail looking for a solution if you don't check exhaust pressure. 

 

GD

 

I checked the exhaust using a vacuum cleaner. I read on another thread that if you disconnect the exhaust from the engine and hook a vacuum up to the tailpipe and can feel suction on the other end than its fine.

[DaveT]

I have done a check with a vacuum cleaner. It's not if you can feel the suction, it's listen to the pitch of the vacuum cleaner motor. It will barely change if the exhaust is unobstructed.

 

Other way to check is loosen the y pipe manifold from the heads, so there is about a half inch gap. Take a short drive. It will be loud, but if the trouble goes away, your exhaust is plugged.

[ivantruckman]

+ 1  on the plugged cat .  a T P S  wouldn't    keep it under  25 .  and it would throw  a code ?  is the  CEL on ?

[devingilberto]

I have done a check with a vacuum cleaner. It's not if you can feel the suction, it's listen to the pitch of the vacuum cleaner motor. It will barely change if the exhaust is unobstructed.

 

Other way to check is loosen the y pipe manifold from the heads, so there is about a half inch gap. Take a short drive. It will be loud, but if the trouble goes away, your exhaust is plugged.

I can give that  a shot!

 

+ 1  on the plugged cat .  a T P S  wouldn't    keep it under  25 .  and it would throw  a code ?  is the  CEL on ?

the CEL went away when I replaced the ETS

[devingilberto]

is the cat being clogged a possibility with only 90,000 on the car?

[DaveT]

The cat can get clogged by running long enough with any of a number of minor malfunctions going on. Some may not even cause the CEL to light. Miles alone doesn't have anything to do with it.

[devingilberto]

The cat can get clogged by running long enough with any of a number of minor malfunctions going on. Some may not even cause the CEL to light. Miles alone doesn't have anything to do with it.

fair enough! the car is sitting at work right now, so ill go in and check it out tomorrow and report bac with news!

[GeneralDisorder]

The best way to check the cat is to thread an adapter into the O2 sensor bung and use a low vacuum/low pressure gauge like this one:

 

http://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/TU29P/back-pressure-tester/

 

A good reading will be less than 3 psi at 2500 RPM, and usually less than 1 psi at idle. 

 

If you hate your neighbors then driving it with the header loose can also give you a good idea but it's not direct proof. 

 

Mufflers also can clog. Especially on stuff that's 25 years old with low mileage - rust tends to cause failure before miles do. 

 

GD

Edited March 3, 2017 by GeneralDisorder

[devingilberto]

Bad news, not the exhaust. Sorry for the delay with the results. At this point I am thinking maybe timing which would be very sucky. Would the distributor have an impact on the engine like this? Or just the timing belts?

[Naked Buell]

A TP sensor is your throttle position sensor. I had a Brat that idled great but had no power what so ever. Come to find out the diaphram on the distributor (vacuum advance) was garbage meaning it wasn't getting any vacuum and wouldn't advance the timing when the engine called for it. But then again, my Brat didn't have any electronics either. 

So you have no engine code? But no power? Engine idles fine? Do you have a vacuum leak or something that didn't get plugged back in?

Edited March 15, 2017 by Naked Buell

[devingilberto]

A TP sensor is your throttle position sensor. I had a Brat that idled great but had no power what so ever. Come to find out the diaphram on the distributor (vacuum advance) was garbage meaning it wasn't getting any vacuum and wouldn't advance the timing when the engine called for it. But then again, my Brat didn't have any electronics either.

So you have no engine code? But no power? Engine idles fine? Do you have a vacuum leak or something that didn't get plugged back in?

What do you mean by diaphragm on the dist? Mine is just the regular rotor, cap and wires setup. Where would my tp be exactly? Connected to the block somewhere? I have looked around the engine bay more times than I care to admit and am pretty positive all vacuum lines are good/connected.

[DaveT]

A stock Loyale will not have vacuum advance. All that is handled by the ECU computer.

[Naked Buell]

Like DaveT said, your Loyale is newer so you don't have a vacuum advance, it is all electronic. It is really weird you don't have an engine code, especially if you are in limp mode. 

So no check engine light? It almost sounds like head problems. No power? Check your plugs for indication of what is going on.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Naked Buell

[devingilberto]

Like DaveT said, your Loyale is newer so you don't have a vacuum advance, it is all electronic. It is really weird you don't have an engine code, especially if you are in limp mode.

So no check engine light? It almost sounds like head problems. No power? Check your plugs for indication of what is going on.

I just replaced my plugs, old plugs had normal wear. Nothing out of the ordinary.

[rapidfire10ring]

Egr would not have this big of an effect.

 

Starving for fuel comes to mind, since you ruled out some of the others.

   Visit a wrecking yard and pull another fuel pump.  They are cheap at the wrecking yard.  At least its worth a try.   Otherwise, bad rings?

[MR_Loyale]

Manual or automatic? 

[Dee2]

To check the health of your engine, run a vacuum test on it.  You will learn a lot.

[DaveT]

Why bad rings?  Did something really bad happen to it? 90K miles is nothing.  I've driven a couple past 200K.  Maybe bad overheat or some other big disaster could damage the rings.  Or years of total crap oil?  Even that would have to be extreme. 

 

Here's why I say extreme-

I had an engine that survived a bad overheat.  It survived a few 30 minute drives at 4000RPM with 50/50 mixture of synthetic oil and water in the crank case!  But after I resealed it, it burned oil like crazy.  Like a quart per tank of gas crazy.  It had an Amsoil bypass filter on it also.  Since I have other engine in better shape, I just kept topping it off with whatever cheap oil I could find, alternating with used oil from other cars, ATF, different weights, you name it.  It ran great.  For years.  The only thing that stopped me from running it was one of the heads cracked to the point where during an 8 hour day at work, 16oz of water would leak out of the head while parked.  I have yet to fully disassemble it, but I did take off the cracked head.  The factory hone marks are still in the cylinder bore.