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home made traction controle?

locker limeted slip traction aid subaru loyale

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16 replies to this topic

#1 christianoffroad

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 09:49 PM

ive been looking for a traction adding device for my 90 loyale, with lockers non existant, and linited slips expensive and complocated, i want to use the breaks as a traction adding device. I want to add line lock solenoids to each rear break line. if I lift a wheel and loos traction, I can energies the solenoid on the wheel in the air and transfer power to the wheel on the ground. has anybody ever tried  this before? do you think the carrier and axels can handle the stress?



#2 Rallyru

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:27 PM

I thought about something similar but decided not to go through with it. A linelocker doesn't apply pressure it just hold it so every time you have one wheel in the air you would have to step on the brakes losing valuable momentum. You would be better off welding the rear diff and going to an independent parking brake system for the front so you could individual lock the left or right.



#3 christianoffroad

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:47 PM

i want to make my subie a long distance driver so i dont want to weld the rear diff. this is more of a worst case sonarieo system, only used if all fails.  I've also thought about adding a extra parking break handel for independent front breaks. i might experamint with modified ABS pumps to apply breaks at the push of a button.



#4 ferp420

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:39 PM

Swap to rear disk and run honda calipers and use the mechanical ebrake on the calipers for your cutting break pulling the front ebreak just alittle dose help alot with front traction ive used it a few times to get out of some realy sticky situations back when i was running open diffs

#5 Uberoo

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 11:56 PM

i want to make my subie a long distance driver so i dont want to weld the rear diff. this is more of a worst case sonarieo system, only used if all fails.  I've also thought about adding a extra parking break handel for independent front breaks. i might experamint with modified ABS pumps to apply breaks at the push of a button.

KISS.Keep It Simple Stupid.A welded rear diff is a far more simple solution to you traction issues.Just run the rear tires over inflated on the street so they dont have too much grip to break things on the street,

 

Or you can pull a rear cv axle on the pavement and put it back in when you think you might need full traction.

 

Besides its the spider gears in the diff that blow up from abuse,Welding them up solves that problem.



#6 idosubaru

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:58 AM

I understand but at the same time Saying something is complicated then considering line lock solenoids and ABS pumps is pretty funny.

How about finding a good VLSD rear diff...or two?

Or ask about axle removal and how yuh can make that easy for such limited uses. is this on a lifted subaru?

#7 Sweet82

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 05:39 PM

I installed two park breaks.

One goes to each front wheel.

 

Whichever one is in the air...gets the brake.

 

The welded diff is the real ticket.



#8 Gloyale

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:30 PM

I installed two park breaks.

One goes to each front wheel.

 

Whichever one is in the air...gets the brake.

 

The welded diff is the real ticket.

 

Bingo....my setup too.

 

I pull one rear axle for road use.  

 

For this persons case, I would recommend a VLSD (91-94 turbo legacy is 3.9 and bolts in and uses same stub type axles)

 

then do dual front E-brakes.



#9 jf1sf5

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 03:58 PM

I have a '97 Forester with ABS, two helical diffs and a DCCD center, its quite efficient but when a wheel is in the air, the helical diffs just behave like open diffs.

 

I thought about retrofitting a VDC but would need to change the harness, too much work ! As I would need better traction only when off road, I thought about Arduino, what do you think ?

 

http://rcarduino.blo...action.html?m=1



#10 pontoontodd

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 08:21 AM

I have a '97 Forester with ABS, two helical diffs and a DCCD center, its quite efficient but when a wheel is in the air, the helical diffs just behave like open diffs.

 

I thought about retrofitting a VDC but would need to change the harness, too much work ! As I would need better traction only when off road, I thought about Arduino, what do you think ?

 

http://rcarduino.blo...action.html?m=1

 

I've been thinking something like this for years.  For what we're all talking about here, stopping a wheel that's off the ground while driving off pavement, the system could be fairly crude.  We're not talking about stability control braking one wheel 5% going through a 70mph turn, if it pulls the car side to side a bit who cares.  If you already have functional ABS I think you already have all the hardware on your car you'd need.  Even something that keeps the wheel speeds within 50% of each other is going to be far superior to a human operator trying to pull handbrakes.  And easier on axles than a welded diff.  Has anyone tried just riding the brakes with one or more wheels in the air and see if the ABS already does something like this?



#11 jf1sf5

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 12:46 PM

I have tried a number of times to drive through the brakes but it is, on our Subarus, nearly useless because if you go slowly, the engine stalls and if you go faster you don't really need to use the brakes....

 

I won't be alone on this project, I'm not very good with electronics.



#12 scalman

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 12:57 PM

i would just "retrofit " all outback into forester . ;) just leave forester frame and put there outback stuff. you would be the first to do that i guess. not sure why you like that forester so much thou. 

no seriously you allready have good stuff in your forester , why change it ? and all that what you put there wont work with VDC . home made VDC ? what it would control and how ? would it control ABS control unit ? then how ? it need to be connected physicly into that ABS unit , like how could some home made traction control control that? 


Edited by scalman, 23 March 2018 - 01:01 PM.


#13 jf1sf5

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 01:25 PM

I want to try another way of having traction control because its fun to adapt things between each other !

 

I want to keep my Forester because its shorter than an Outback, is more luminous, has better angles...and I'm used to it.

 

Have you looked at the Arduino link ?

 

If you once again travel south, come to Switzerland and France and we can go offroading together.


Edited by jf1sf5, 23 March 2018 - 01:29 PM.


#14 Numbchux

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 03:19 PM

I have a '97 Forester with ABS, two helical diffs and a DCCD center, its quite efficient but when a wheel is in the air, the helical diffs just behave like open diffs.

 

I thought about retrofitting a VDC but would need to change the harness, too much work ! As I would need better traction only when off road, I thought about Arduino, what do you think ?

 

http://rcarduino.blo...action.html?m=1

 

I'm not an expert, but I think it would be very difficult to get an arduino to do that very well. It looks like that build is very simple, using 2 pulses per wheel revolution, and only one output for the lights. And even so, he estimates a 10% error rate.

 

To do it with a car, you'd need a few dozen pulses per revolution, and have 4 outputs for each independent wheel. I don't think the Arduino processor is powerful enough to do that well enough to justify the effort.

 

 

I'm setting up a little Arduino display to replace the clock in the dash of my Celica, to display a few different variables about the engine (coolant, intake temperature, Wideband AFR, voltage, etc.), and it noticeably flickers as the refresh rate is kinda slow, and I haven't even started with the conversions for the temp sensors, which will require a parabolic equation to accurately calculate, which will probably grind this thing to a halt.

 

 

It's possible a skilled programmer could make it work, but it's going to have some serious limitations.


Edited by Numbchux, 23 March 2018 - 03:19 PM.


#15 jf1sf5

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 08:45 AM

The R/C car wheels are very small thus why he uses 2 pulses per wheel rotation but from what I understand, the Arduino could use many more pulses as it would only be used over big ruts at low speed for our application.

 

The helical diffs I have front and rear are torque sensitive meaning I would just need light braking on the spinning wheel(s) to send torque to the most gripping wheel(s).

 

Theorically, I think it should work but now we have to make it and see...



#16 pontoontodd

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 02:24 PM

Food for thought:

http://www.pirate4x4...ad-lockers.html

Thread degenerates pretty quickly as many do, but there are some interesting thoughts and ideas.

 

Makes me think it would be pretty easy to rig up turning brakes if your ABS pump and valves are still working too, that would be cool.



#17 Numbchux

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:15 PM

The R/C car wheels are very small thus why he uses 2 pulses per wheel rotation but from what I understand, the Arduino could use many more pulses as it would only be used over big ruts at low speed for our application.

 

The helical diffs I have front and rear are torque sensitive meaning I would just need light braking on the spinning wheel(s) to send torque to the most gripping wheel(s).

 

Theorically, I think it should work but now we have to make it and see...

 

Cheap DIY traction control is certainly possible. My point is that I don't think the processor on the Arduino is up to do the job very well, I predict a fairly large project, which ends in something that's unable to deal with the inputs fast enough, and sometimes will jump in when you don't need it because it thinks there's wheel slip when there isn't, or it won't detect the slip when you need it to work.

 

I think you'd be better of with something very simple and manual, like line locks. Or something based on more powerful hardware, like a Raspberry PI.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: locker, limeted slip, traction aid, subaru loyale

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