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What Top 3 Engines Would be Best to Use?


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26 replies to this topic

#1 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:27 AM

Hello Everyone,

 

I would like to take a COMPLETE power-plant with; wiring, ECM,  instrument cluster and install it in an older vehicle.

 

I can only use it as a FrontWD vehicle.  It will not be 4WD or RWD. 

They have to be the most reliable (hopefully) newer style engines with the highest HP and Torque available. 

My hope is that there are engines with 250+Hp/Trq available that can be installed in a non-Subaru.

I am also looking at AUTOMATIC and MANUAL Conversions.

FYI - I am okay with Diesel too. If they are now available in USA and/or Canada, since I last looked into them when they first came out.

 

Thank you for your help and time.   

 

Sincerely, Tony



#2 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:45 AM

EZ30D (2003-2009) and EZ36D (2010-current) seem to have numbers close to what I am hoping for.  Personally do not know anything about them, other than what I read. 

I have no clue if they can be stand alone or if anyone has used them in their project with success or not.

 

Tony



#3 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:46 AM

Hi Tony,

 

Unfortunately this goes two different directions. Subarus most reliable motors are also the lowest HP while the higher HP tend to be the more high maintenance. You can get some of the WRX motors at that HP but you are looking at quite the hefty expense before you even start swapping.

 

What sort of platform are you putting this motor into? Space is often limited but if you have space, the best would be to snag one of Subarus H6 platforms. The EG33 made about 220hp and can be found fairly cheap. Especially as the SVXs they often came in were prone to transmission failure.

 

The EZ30 is getting easier to find and makes similar power. The only non turbo that Subaru has over 250HP is the EZ36 if you can find a wrecked newer outback with one. Each of these H6s are pretty tough motors.

 

The most reliable motors are going to cut HP down considerably. The 1990-1998 EJ22 - arguably the most dependable motor Subaru ever put out brings about 135hp. The next most dependable would be the 2010-2012 EJ25 (170HP) and 3rd the 2000-2004 EJ25. (165)

 

Would help knowing exactly what you want to drop this into to have a better idea on options.


Edited by AdventureSubaru, 14 March 2017 - 10:48 AM.


#4 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:47 AM

How much can you spend is the next most relevant question as the few motors in that HP range come with a higher price tag.



#5 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:03 AM

Thank you. I sent you a PM.



#6 Numbchux

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:21 AM

Well, you've got a bit of a tall order.

 

The only non-immobilizer Subaru engine that made 250hp on the stock ECU was the 2004 STi EJ257 at 300hp.

 

 

I would agree, with the information we have, your best match would probably be the 01-04 EZ30, or EG33.

 

'05+ EZ 6-cylinders did offer more power, but are all immobilizer cars, so the stock ECU cannot be used in another car....so unless you're willing to drop the coin on a standalone, and get it tuned, those are out. The same is true [I think] of all '05+ turbos. 

 

 

Subaru never brought the diesel to North America. Although there have been many that have been imported, look into Boxeer in Tennessee. 

 

 

 

I would be relevant to know an approximate budget and what this is going into....


Edited by Numbchux, 14 March 2017 - 11:22 AM.


#7 idosubaru

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:44 AM

EZ36 is the only engine that even meets your criteria unless you want forced induction but that might encroach on longevity/reliability depending what your personal markers are on that front. 

 

EG33's are excellent engines but not super common and probably not "newer" depending on what your definition of that is. 

 

FB25 would be my pick for longevity but doesn't meet your power goals. 

 

An "easy" option would be to try to run an EZ36 with earlier 00-04 EZ30 electronics to avoid all the immobilizer jugernaut.  you'll get the increased displacement but loose the variable valve stuffs so it'll take a hit in output.

 

"newer" is highly ambiguous.   1990's is "newer" in that it's the EJ platform.  2000-2005 are fossils to others. 



#8 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:27 PM

Why would I have to lose the VVT?  If i use the entire power-plant - wiring and ecm - can't I get the engine to run correctly. I understand Subaru has its own unique setup. I am currently working on a project with a new GM 4.3lt that also has VVT and I will still have all its benefits in that project. My hope is that I can do the same with the Subaru in a different project.


Edited by Ultravan Owners, 14 March 2017 - 08:39 PM.


#9 86BRATMAN

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:45 PM

The only non-immobilizer Subaru engine that made 250hp on the stock ECU was the 2004 STi EJ257 at 300hp.


Only true for the USDM engines. There are several JDM swaps available that fit this bill.

#10 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:52 PM

USDM engines?



#11 86BRATMAN

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:56 PM

United States Domestic Market. Applies to vehicles sold in the North American market.

#12 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:24 PM

Thanks. I figured out the US.  Grin  I had no clue on the DM.



#13 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:30 PM

Are people or TUNERS out there who can tune these Subaru setups?

I don't know what size tires I would be using with this Subaru project I have in mind.

With the current project I am working on I have to change settings for tire size and other items.  



#14 86BRATMAN

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:03 PM

Almost everything usdm 02 (jdm 01) or newer can be readily tuned via open source software. The 02+ usdm turbo applications have the option to be tune with a Cobb AccessPort, but that adds more cost to the equation.

As far tire size, that has no bearing on the subaru ecu. As long as it gets a speed signal its happy.

#15 idosubaru

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:53 AM

Why would I have to lose the VVT?  If i use the entire power-plant - wiring and ecm - can't I get the engine to run correctly.

 

Because VVT engines have immobilizers, they will not run with just the wiring and ECU like older Subaru's.  There's a bit of hand shaking that's going on across multiple vehicle platforms, so you need to make all of that happy before the ECU will run. 

 

It's not about the VVT, it's about the immobilizer set up, but they just happen to have been introduced around the same time and all VVT engines have immobilizers. 



#16 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:13 AM

Almost everything usdm 02 (jdm 01) or newer can be readily tuned via open source software. The 02+ usdm turbo applications have the option to be tune with a Cobb AccessPort, but that adds more cost to the equation.

As far tire size, that has no bearing on the subaru ecu. As long as it gets a speed signal its happy.

 

Tire size changes the speedometer. On the current project I am working on changing the tire size** will change the readings the ECM receives. So I thought just maybe it would do the same with the Subaru ECU. 

 

** Tire size on the vehicle I am taking the power-plant from for my current project uses 31" tall tires. However, the tallest tire I can use on my current project is 26" tall tire.  So the tuner is going to have to change the tire size reading in the program of the ECM to get the power-plant to work correctly it the older vehicle.


Edited by Ultravan Owners, 15 March 2017 - 10:56 AM.


#17 86BRATMAN

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:00 AM

Subaru ecu's don't have any sort of information regarding tire size. They receive a speed signal from the instrument cluster, the extent of change in the tune, depending on ecu, would be in the gear determination tables if you were using boost by gear compensation.

#18 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:18 AM

The Subaru instrument cluster is electronic and not cable driven, correct?  I must say the last time I worked on a Subaru was back in late 80's and a lot has changed. Plus I have not done a Subaru conversion yet. So it is all new to me and a big learning curve. 

 

Not to confuse things, but to compare (and it is only what I know thus far) my current project has a sensor in either the transmission and/or differential. That sensor reads the given speed the vehicle is traveling and it is also based on the tire size the ECM was programed with from the factory. The RPM a tire will rotate varies depending on the O.D. I had to make 100% sure that there would be a way to change that info in the ECM or the engine would not preform properly.  I just want to be extra sure that I can come up with some Subaru power-plants that will work on this other project idea.

 

Thanks everyone for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Sincerely, Tony


Edited by Ultravan Owners, 15 March 2017 - 11:20 AM.


#19 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:47 AM

On the Subarus I'm aware of, the speed sensor was cable driven until about 98/99 but on some transmissions the older cable and sensor screwed into the same port and worked just fine.

 

Throttle through 2004 I think.



#20 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:33 PM

Okay. After your help and doing some more research EZ36 is the one.

Now I have to find out if an Automatic and Manual for this engine can be Front WD only.



#21 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:59 PM

If the bolt pattern from the EZ36 hasn't changed from the EZ30 the FWD transaxles from the early 90s legacy and Impreza should bolt up fine. Wiring between them would be interesting as it would span about a 20 year age difference between engine and transaxle. But from a mechanical standpoint might be the easiest way to join an EZ36 with a FWD trans.

 

Others would involve at least an adapter plate/custom flex plate or a new bellhousing.

 

Options list I'd imagine is on the shorter side since most FWD transaxles were made to sit beside the motor like a honda instead of behind it.

 

There's a guy in Ohio that make a custom bellhousing that mates a W series toyota trans to a Subaru EJ bolt pattern. Maybe there's a FWD option in the Toyota line that would have the right bolt pattern?


Edited by AdventureSubaru, 15 March 2017 - 07:00 PM.


#22 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 10:12 AM

Thank you again everyone for your help and support ..

 

I know what engine = EZ36D.  I have worked out the wiring.  But I still have a few things to figure out.

 

If anyone of you have or know of someone who has a 2010 and up Subaru with a EZ36D and Automatic only - PLEASE check out the following thread below. I need more information to be able to run an Engine RPM - Speed calculator. This will help me to know if I will be able to run the power-plant in the factory sweet spot or not with my planned build.  Right now I am only focusing on the Automatic.  At my age I don't need any help to overload the brain. LOL

http://www.ultimates...tion-thank-you/

 

Thank you for all your help and support. It is greatly appreciated!!

 

Sincerely, Tony



#23 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 04:22 PM

Thanks to help on the other thread. I was able to find the other info I needed. 

 

I believe I know what tire size came on EZ36D vehicles and what final drive ratio they also had.

With that info I was able to put it into an engine RPM calculator to come up with the best transmission, final drive and known tire size combination that will fit in the project.  

 

It takes time but I am getting closer.

 

Thank you again for all your help and support.

 

Sincerely, Tony



#24 RalphtheBRATman

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 04:48 PM

Small VW diesel engines work realy well. I have a BRAT and I am looking to put one in that when its moter dies... if it ever dose... alot of them are FWD and can be 4WD if you want to go that route. 



#25 Ultravan Owners

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:37 AM

Here is a chart I made yesterday to help me with my build.

 

EZ36D 

1st       2nd       3rd    4th       5th     6th      Final Drive  Tire Size  RPM @ 65

3.105  1.983  1.454  1.057  0.779  0.543      4.111           30.047        1622 -    2015+ OutBack

3.54     2.264  1.471  1.00   0.834     -           3.583           29.043        2245 -    2014 Tribeca

 

I have a question. I did a search on here and cars101 beforehand but was not able to find what I needed. On here I searched under "EZ36 rotation" to be 100% sure that the EZ36 does rotate clockwise like I think they do. The only link that popped up on here under that search, talked about cam rotation and how many degs. 

 

QUESTION:

Does the EZ36 Rotate Clockwise? (standing at the front of the engine)

 

Thank you, Tony 


Edited by Ultravan Owners, 27 March 2017 - 06:40 PM.





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