nicksubaru Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I have a 99 outback with an ej25. Im going to do a headgasket and timing belt on this car. Im in California also. And im not "just put a ej22" in it. So my question is brands and or kit to get to do this. And the while im there stuff i should do that i might not think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golucky66 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Id adjust the valves if the heads are off anyways. Would make it easier (provided you know how to do it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 EJ251 pistons (new or used OEM), NPR rings, piston skirt knurling, and 2006+ STI head gaskets from Subaru. Aisin water pump. NTN tensioner assembly Koyo/NSK idlers Mitsuboshi Timing belt. Updated metal separator plate and bolts. Wrist pin access cover o-ring. OEM intake, exhaust, valve cover, spark plug tube gaskets. Etc GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I have a 99 2.5 DOCH the PO put over $2600 into the heads and head gaskets. He ran it about 6000 miles before he got a rod knock. I have it listed in parts for sale. It has a Mitsuboshi Timing belt. New idlers... If you want any of the parts let me know. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Is this an engine that should have a larger oil pump too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I have a 99 2.5 DOCH the PO put over $2600 into the heads and head gaskets. He ran it about 6000 miles before he got a rod knock. I have it listed in parts for sale. It has a Mitsuboshi Timing belt. New idlers... If you want any of the parts let me know. Larry Similar story on my son's 03 Forester with an EJ251. New head gaskets and rod knock a few thousand miles later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) It is wise to cut open the oil filter (with a proper filter cutter as to not introduce false positives) and if possible send off an oil analysis prior to assuming the bottom end is still good. Also all the 2000 to 2004 engine should get upgraded oil pumps as they were mostly equipped with 7mm and 9mm pumps. Fortunately the 25D's all had 10's. GD Edited July 9, 2017 by GeneralDisorder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 So im on about close to a $500 budget, ill do all work/labor myself so that's whatever, and ill get any special tools needed for the job. This car im planning on selling as soon as its fix. So i can't really change the pistons to the flat top ones or anything that reasonably dont need to be changed. That's why u was asking for a single kit or 2 kits, timing belt and headgasket. But it seems that the parts wont be in just one kit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 If your going to just sell it after, slap a set of head gaskets in it ( do machine heads for flatness ). Buy those from Subaru. Then buy a Timing belt kit from Mitsoboshi or OEM. If the idlers don't feel good replace them. If the car got oil in the coolant and you have a milkshake in the water pump, replace with AISIN/ OEM. That should be good enough to get it to the next T belt change without further issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Can't be done right for $500. I live by the words of my grandfather - "If it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing right". GD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Ok.... Cant be done right in the $500 range, what range would you guess id be at? Just for parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Well unless you are going to resurface your own heads (can be done - we do), then you will have machine shop costs as well. Being a 25D you will almost certainly have to change some or all of the exhaust valve shims. You can thick head gasket it, but that's not the long term solution to the HG issue. 251 pistons and thin head gaskets is the long term solution. Factory pistons would be best but aftermarket with knurling will work also. It's probably more in the $800 parts and machine work. Hard to say what the costs will be exactly - depends on where you buy the parts and what kind of discounts you get. My costs are wholesale and would be meaningless to the DIY'er. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 While doing the head gaskets, recommend replacing the oil seals. I failed to have that done at last T/B change on my 99 OBW. I blew out one of the oil seals recently. Was fortunate enough to see the oil warning light in time....got the car stopped, before damaging the motor with low to no oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 In general I avoid EJ25Ds without compelling reasons because repeat failures are not worth my time and not rare. If I find a compelling reason (can verify it wasnt overheated - which is hard by this age, helping a friend in dire need) then I do resurface, OEM headgaskets, Gates timing belt kit, Aisin water pump, reseal oil pump and replace cam seals with OEM seals. But I haven't done one since Gates kits have started changing the pulley suppliers and people are complaining about them so not sure what I would do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 What would be wrong with using the thin headgasket, but not change the pistons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) The pistons hit the cylinder head. It won't even turn over. At TDC the block has negative deck height.... or negative quench height/volume.... whatever terminology you prefer. GD Edited July 11, 2017 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Oh dam. Ok that's good to know. So the thicker headgasket is taking the full load of the compression that's why they arnt as good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The thicker head gasket means the head is farther from the deck and that means less rigidity. The cylinder walls move around with thermal expansion and contraction and over time this breaks down the gasket and abrades the mating surfaces where the fire rings seal. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 when you pull the heads or google images you'll see the pistons sticking way over the block deck. need thick gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 If the gaskets are not blown at the moment, I would just throw new gaskets in. Don't worry too much. May blow again but done properly will still last a while.. If your into this trying to make money, I can't imagine making much. Swapping pistons around won't be seen as a selling point and price won't reflect the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 If the gaskets are not blown at the moment, I would just throw new gaskets in. Don't worry too much. May blow again but done properly will still last a while.. If your into this trying to make money, I can't imagine making much. Swapping pistons around won't be seen as a selling point and price won't reflect the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 That's my thoughts as well. Thats why i really don't want to change out the pistons. Im not trying to drive this car myself, im trying to sell it, so i can put money into my 86 brat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) So now the question is where would be a good place to buy my parts from, and what brands? Im going to be using this engine from the 97 Subaru. So if theres a differents that should be noted. Im going to use as much of the 99 stuff as possible. Intake, sensors etc. Im looking for timing belt and headgasket kit. Dont think this engine needs a head gasket, but im going to replace anyways. Because it looks like the stock garbage ones Edited August 6, 2017 by nicksubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 The $500 fix would be a used motor. You can certainly just swap in an EJ25. Most elect for a ej22 but to each their own. car-part.com to find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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