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Timing belt pulleys, tensioners, etc.


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58 replies to this topic

#1 89XT6

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 12:46 PM

Hi guys,

 

I'm resealing my 1989 XT6, 2.7l.  I ordered all OEM gaskets, waterpump and seals through a local Subaru dealer.  I need to know.... exactly what I need as far as timing belt pulleys, tensioners, idlers, etc.  I see some brands like Beck Arnley, Mellings, GMP... any others?  What do you guys recommend and where can I get them?

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#2 john in KY

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 05:09 PM

The idlers can be rebuilt by just replacing the bearing. Some if not all the other stuff may no longer be available. Try the dealer first and take a look at Rock Auto.com. 



#3 89XT6

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

I found these:

 

Beck Arnley idler bearings, part numbers 051-3860 and 051-3954 (upper and lower?) 

Melling tensioners, BT141 (left) and BT140 (right)

ITM tensioners, 60222 (left and right)

 

I still need to verify that these are correct and available.  My real question is this... can someone give me a detailed list of every piece I need for both timing belts? I'll seasch the OEM parts online again, but this doesn't show everything, just what they might have in stock.   I can and will go to the dealership, but I often find myself helping them read the blurry little part diagrams anyway.  I was very successful in building an OEM engine gasket kit by myself, but these idlers and pulleys and tensioners and bearings have me confused.  



#4 idosubaru

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 08:33 PM

I bet some of those are incorrect parts listed for the XT6 that are really for the 4 cylinder (ive seen it a thousand times) or unavailable. I'm on my phone so I'm not going to look them up now.

There's at least one timing pulley that isn't available for XT6's.

You also can't easily replace the bearings in all the pulleys I don't believe. The one shallow one easily comes apart. But one or two of them are staked in and have an unknown part number (I've talked to engineers from NSK/NTN or whoever the original supplier is and they can't find the part number anywhere). But you can just mic them and custom rebuild it yourself if you grind/machine the staked in portion away.

A couple are available from Subaru.

I just regrease them with a needle fitting. Works like a charm and costs about 50 cents in grease and the $4 fitting. I make sure to check them from time to time but I think I've been doing this like 12 years or more now without issue. Don't overfill them - the grease will push the face seals out and needs space to heat up and expand.

#5 idosubaru

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 08:36 PM

6004 and 6005 are two bearing numbers associated with XT6 pulleys. Just read the face seals or if you don't have them let me know and I'll post the bearing numbers later. That's for the easily replaced ones.

Where did you get those beck arnely part numbers from?

#6 DaveT

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 08:43 PM

Those 2 numbers are standard ball beaeings. A good industrial bearing shop can get them with contact seals.

Drill off the staked risers, turn new ones that press into standard bearings, and stake them onto the brackets.

#7 idosubaru

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 08:49 PM

Looking on my my phone the melling parts appear to be 4 cylinder and not XT6.

There's a passengers (right side) timing belt and tensioner which is just a pulley bolted to a bracket and a spring attaches from the engine block to the bracket to hold tension. So "tensioner" is somewhat misleading since it's not really a tensioner by itself - it's just a pulley on a bracket that does the tensioning once the spring is attached to it. Replace that tensioner assembly as one part or just the the bearings. That's an easy one to replace bearings on.

The XT6 drivers side tensioner is a funky screw type hydraulic adjuster that presses on a pulley. I've got them new in the box and can post a part number later if needed.

That's one pulley for the tensioner (hydraulic tensioner and pulley are separate parts on the drivers side).
Then two other idler pulleys.

So in summary:

Passengers side:
Belt
Tensioner (6005 bearings)
Spring

Drivers side:
Belt
Tensioner pulley ((2) 6005 bearings)
Tensioner
Idler pulley lower 5OSTD61DWAX bearings
Idler pulley upper 5OSTD61DWAX bearings

Edited by idosubaru, 01 August 2017 - 09:18 PM.


#8 idosubaru

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 09:13 PM

Those 2 numbers are standard ball beaeings. A good industrial s.

oh right, I didn't mean those were the hard ones. don't even need a good bearing shop, they're readily available with a click anywhere theres cell reception or wifi. Those aren't the ones that are staked in.

6004 is the serpentine pulley bearing.

6005 is for the passengers and drivers side tensioner pulley. I think 3 are required because the drivers side takes two.

Heres the problem child. These are the ones staked in The drivers side upper and lower pulley bearings are part number:
5OSTD61DWAX
JAPAN NSK

Those are not only unavailable but there is no extant information any bearing supplier or tech from NSK could find. If theres an awesome bearing supplier Id like to hear from them. The ones I talked to with that part number looked at me cockeyed until they saw the bearing with their own eyes.

So measure and build your own it is or go with the following options:

Subaru timing idler pulley part numbers:
13073AA020
13073AA040

Here's the PCI # for the complete kit and a picture of the parts:
PCI TS26150
http://m.ebay.it/itm...668?_mwBanner=1

Bottom two are the lower and upper idlers.

The top is passengers side timing tensioner.
Second from top is drivers side without the bolt and casing.

Edited by idosubaru, 01 August 2017 - 09:16 PM.


#9 89XT6

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 05:16 AM

Wow, Subaru Gurus :headbang:  Thanks for all of your time, especially Mr. Elite Master of the Subaru.  The Beck Arnley part numbers are from Rock Auto, in the XT6 list.  They are just bearings that would be pressed into a pulley.  I ordered Beck Arnley belts.  From the info and tips you guys shared, I'm sure I can get this done.  I'm willing to pay a little more to get it right the first time.  My XT6 is very clean and worth it IMO.  The motor is tight,  quiet and quick.  I had it up to 80mph the other day :)  The suspension is tight, no need to spend money there.  It has new calipers, pads and drilled/slotted rotors, they work very well.  I noticed that they can get pretty hot, these original wheels must not let much cooling to occur.  I like the original wheels, so I'll deal with the heat.  It is very true, most parts available for an XT are for the 1.8L.  This is the main reason why I asked for your expert help and opinions... "Know what you know and know what you don't know!"  I'm being very careful when I order parts, using the VIN and checking myself constantly.  That's why I threw so much money at Ramsey Subaru to get me the correct OEM parts.  I'll check with them on their OEM idler pulleys.  The parts guy told me there is a warehouse in WA where they keep obscure Subaru parts.  



#10 idosubaru

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 06:35 AM

I've been driving XT6's for over 20 years so that's the reason I'm familiar with this.

Aftermarket timing pulleys for EJ engines have a higher failure rate than OEM. Theres a good chance this holds true for older and more obscure parts as well. I doubt old parts with little demand command high design and materials and assembly sourcing costs from suppliers.

Last I checked earlier this year you could get all the pulleys or bearings for them except one of those drivers side idlers was not available nor could the bearings be sourced. That's the only tricky one.

A machine should be able to easily fit a replaceable bearing to it for probably less than an hour labor if you didn't want to wade through that yourself.

I'm busy now but could organize this info a little more clearly when I'm not traveling and on my phone, if you're confused on how many pulleys/bearings there are.

Edited by idosubaru, 02 August 2017 - 07:14 AM.


#11 idosubaru

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 07:13 AM

Can you edit the thread title still and add "XT6" for easier future reference/searching since these are different from EA timing gear?

#12 89XT6

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 12:52 PM

I PM'd a moderator, we'll see if he edits the thread title as I requested.  That PCI kit is no longer available, but it looks nice and gives me a clear picture of what I need.  Another question...

I ordered 2 OEM head gaskets 11044AA013.  I see what looks like 2 piece heads, so another gasket?  I don't see this anywhere, not even on the  old Subaru parts diagrams.



#13 89XT6

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 02:54 PM

Here's what I see on the Ramsey NJ Subaru site:

 

Right side tensioner, #16 on the diagram, part# 13070AA010

 

Left side tensioner, #21 on the diagram, part# 13069AA000

 

Idler assembly, #23 on the diagram (lower idler?), part # 13073AA000, your part#  13073AA040 shows as NLA (no longer available).

 

The second idler assembly, #19 on the diagram (upper idler?), I guess this is the tricky one.  I do see an aftermarket option,

GMB, part # W0133-1631014

 

What do you think?  



#14 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:57 PM

I found a bearing supplier/manufacturer.  They need to know the dimensions of this Idler pulley 5OSTD61DWAX bearing.

 

Do you know these dimensions? 



#15 scoobiedubie

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 04:57 PM

I have got (6) brand new SKF 6005-2RS1/C3 bearings that I bought by mistake.  I will sell you the works for $50.



#16 idosubaru

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:05 PM

I found a bearing supplier/manufacturer. They need to know the dimensions of this Idler pulley 5OSTD61DWAX bearing.

Do you know these dimensions?


My bearing is still installed so I can't easily meaure but I'll try and find another shop to disassemble it.

Do they want:
1. Bearing dimensions
2. Pulley dimensions
3. Assembled pulley with bearing dimensions.

#17 89XT6

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 10:25 PM

I'm not sure, I'll most likely bring the pulleys (the whole assemblies) and have them take a look, they are the pros, not me!  I just got back from a nice 5 days in The Finger Lakes, so I have to get my head back into the game here.  On Saturday I'll bring the rest of the engine reseal parts to the garage.  Now that they have all the parts, hopefully they won't be too busy with the usual customers and can start this little side project.  I'll keep you up to date on the idler pulleys.



#18 89XT6

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 10:29 PM

SKF 6005-2RS1/C3 bearings... thanks, but I bought both complete OEM tensioner assemblies, with the bearings.



#19 89XT6

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 09:47 AM

Okay, :P  time for an update...

 

Cam case and heads apart, internals look great.  Previous reseal used too much RTV or whatever it is.  Scraped and scraped and used brake cleaner and compressed air.  Victor Reinz head gaskets fit perfectly and IMO are OEM quality made in Japan.  Replaced all of the small rubber coated metal gaskets on the cam cases with Subaru OEM (the old ones were gunked up with RTV and I advise any reseal to replace these little suckers.  Head bolts are fine and reused after cleaning them and holes.  Don't forget to use a tiny bit of oil on the bolts!  

Existing timing tensioners felt fine but replaced with Subaru OEM.  The existing idler pulleys feel good, no play in the bearings, smooth, not tight or loose and not noisy (keeping my fingers crossed because these are NLA and I'm not taking them off).  All new Subaru OEM cam seals, o-rings, oil pump seal and MM gasket.  I'm using Gates Premium Power Grip timing belts.  I had 3 sets to choose from, Gates, Dayco and Beck Arnely.  Through RockAuto... Beck Arnley seem to be flavor of the day, they are not a manufacturer, so they supply whatever fits and sent me 2 different brands, stupid.  one was good, the other was an old dried up Subaru OEM that felt like a rubber band before it snaps!  The Dayco are good, but the Gates are better IMO (Made in USA).

And, once again and again, Subaru parts websites mislead me.  I had to return head gaskets, idler pulleys and a water pump.  These parts are NLA for the 2.7L, so their website needs to be updated and managed better (I can understand that it is also my job to investigate thoroughly, but the diagrams are too vague).

I have an Airtex waterpump coming tomorrow, then we can continue the reseal.  I have a new gasket and o-ring for the metal pipe and a new Subaru OEM thermostat.

Other new Subaru OEM gaskets going on are valve cover and grommets, front and rear crank seals, oil pan and separator.

I  have new Subaru OEM upper and lower radiator hoses, inlet/outlet heater hoses, and some PCV  hoses.  The transmission cooler hoses look bad, they will be replaced with off the shelf hose, no big deal.  

Also, I have a complete tune kit ready, using Bosch, Intermotor, Mitsubishi, NGK and Optima yellow top.  Don't forget to re-do your grounds in the engine bay, they are all corroded and exposed at the connectors!  I used a dremmel to clean the contact surface, cut and crimped new quality connectors and used heat shrink and shiny new hardware with a bit of battery grease.  

Keep all of your old parts for... I don't know, just hold on to them, they are rare.



#20 89XT6

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:45 PM

Almost done! 

 

We're following the FSM now, to make sure we don't miss anything.  Fired her up with the ECU connectors in the trunk plugged into each other and timing set up nice.  

But... after we heard a tick!  One of the valve lash adjusters seized up, passenger side rear.  I ordered a new one.  I noticed, before my reseal adventure, that once in a while on startup, I would hear a tick or three, then nice and quiet, thinking the valve lash adjusters are just doing their job and one of them is getting stuck a bit.  I'm pretty sure it was the bad one we found.  

Should be finished by next week, but you never know, strange things can happen like this little bugger VLA.

 

Any experienced opinions on this or suggestions on the initial set up and fire up?  

I know... we did all new OEM gaskets but maybe mickey mouse got sucked in?  A new oil pump costs $225   :angry:, no thanks. 



#21 idosubaru

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:18 PM

How long did you run it after the work - the HLA's can be noisy for awhile after being down or apart.  

 

If you're replacing one HLA you should replace them all on that side while it's apart.  It's only $5-$15 each from Mizpah to have them all rebuilt.

 

Are new oil pumps even available?



#22 89XT6

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 06:05 PM

Less than a minute, probably not long enough.  We were debating on how long to wait, then decided to shut it down and investigate, before something breaks.  First we checked the timing with a light and it was fine.  We found the culprit noise making HLA,  removed it and took it apart.  I have a rebuilt OEM one coming Saturday for $20.   I haven't verified the existence of an oil pump, just saw them on the Subaru "Wish List".  

 

The other 5 HLAs feel fine, all having the same "pressure", they look and feel good.  I'm familiar with the HLA clickitty clack, so I'll replace all 6 or 12 if we diagnosed the wrong one.

 

How long should we wait after starting, if an HLA makes noise?



#23 89XT6

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:57 PM

I found your old HLA TOD thread, very nice.  So, I'll wait 10-20 minutes for the TOD to stop, hopefully she quiets down sooner.  I'll contact Mizpah if I need more.



#24 idosubaru

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:54 AM

The noise won't hurt anything, people run Subarus years with HLAs clicking. Maybe I wouldn't recommend that, running indefinitely but it's benign otherwise.

#25 89XT6

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

Still clacking on the passenger side after changing the suspect HLA.  Mizpah needs my cores to rebuild, they have none available in stock.  I ordered 6 brand new Mellings lifters from a reputable dealer in CA.  We should have them by next Friday.  Why are all of these XT parts concentrated on the west coast?   :huh:






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