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XT6 timing belt pulleys, anything else needed?

XT6 2.7L timing parts

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22 replies to this topic

#1 89XT6

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 07:09 PM

Attached File  ER27 timing pulleys.jpg   98.58K   28 downloads

 

Attention Subaru Gurus!

 

Will these tensioners and idlers do the trick?  I ordered Beck Arnley belts from CRock Auto, they sent 1 Beck Arnley belt and 1 Subaru OE belt that felt like an old dried up rubber band.  Got a refund and ordered 2 Dayco and 2 Gates belts from trusted companies, to compare and choose the best.  Any opinions?

 

Here is what I have for tensioners and idlers:

 

Subaru OE Tensioner 13070AA010 Passenger side

Subaru OE Tensioner 13069AA000 Driver side

Subaru OE Idler 13073AA000 Lower

GMB Idler 460-8690 Upper

 

Can I reuse the spring on the Passenger side tensioner?

 

I'm resealing the whole engine, everything you experts have suggested thousands of times before.  Rewiring the CTS with a new fuel injector pigtail, reworking all grounds, tweaking the tiny ignition switch screw (poor engineering) and connector under the dash, etc.

 

I know this dead smelly horse is haunting you by now but you will satisfied to know I am not chopping this XT6 up, it will remain stock right down to the little 14" salad cutter wheels.

 

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Attached Files



#2 idosubaru

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:18 PM

The picture is missing both drivers side idler pulleys. They are both smooth, not toothed like that sprocket pictured. I think I gave you the part numbers and links to pictures to what they look like in your other thread.

Edited by idosubaru, 09 August 2017 - 11:18 PM.


#3 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:58 PM

Yes, you are very helpful.  you gave me this: 

 

Idler pulley lower 5OSTD61DWAX bearings 

Idler pulley upper 5OSTD61DWAX bearings 

 

Nowhere to be found and I'm not confident in taking a chance on either poking, prying and re-greasing them or taking them apart to source something to fit.   I would rather take a chance on a factory OEM pulley bearing with 160K miles.  If I can't hunt something down by the time I have all the other parts I need to do a re seal,  We'll see how the old ones look. 

 

The dang Subaru website is also wrong.  The camshaft and timing diagram shows 2 smooth pulleys and links them to 2 part numbers.  One is NLA, the other is the orange sprocket that I ordered.  

I guess I can use the 2 new sprockets 

 

The part number they give for XT6 head gaskets is also wrong, they sent me 1.8L gaskets. Digging deeper and finding the correct 2.7L head gasket part number, I see they are NLA.  I ordered Nippon Riese head gaskets.  I wanted to jump the counter when the parts guy said they can't give refunds for special orders.  



#4 idosubaru

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:07 PM

thats the bearing part number, yeah you'll never find those. I meant the pulley part numbers like you'd get from Subaru.

What's the part number of the toothed pulley?
What website did you use?

#5 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 06:09 PM

The toothed pulley from Subaru is 13073AA000.  They call it  IDLER COMPLETE-BELT.  If you can get to a Subaru parts website,  http://parts.ramseysubaru.net, they link this part number to #19 on their diagram, which looks like a smooth idler pulley to me.  The other toothed I have is aftermarket, GMB Timing belt idler 460-8690.  Both have bearings with "6203" on them and look similar.  The GMB part is an upper idler, not sure about the Subaru piece, maybe the same.

 

You gave me these: 

Subaru timing idler pulley part numbers: 

13073AA020
13073AA040   Both are no longer available

 

The website links to the same part as the sprocket, so another Subaru mistake



#6 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 06:23 PM

The GMB toothed pulley is the same as the Subaru toothed pulley 13073AA000.  This is the upper toothed pulley according to GMB.



#7 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 06:39 PM

I don't see any toothed idler pulleys on this Subaru diagram.  Maybe their are none, just the two tensioners i have, the two nowhere to be found smooth Idler pulleys and the two big toothed cam sprockets. 

Apparently Subaru shows no love for the sweet old 2.7 H-6  :/



#8 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:36 PM

Attached File  C10_013B0096.png   446.74K   7 downloads

 

Here is the XT6 Timing and camshaft diagram


Edited by 89XT6, 10 August 2017 - 07:36 PM.


#9 idosubaru

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:10 PM

XT6s dont have a sprocket (toothed pulley), except the cam sprockets but they're fixed with no bearings so no need to replace.

There are two tensioner pulleys
And the two idler pulleys (both idlers are on the drivers side)

Maybe you could talk to a couple machine shops and ask if they'd be willing to try and regrease them. I'd favor ones that have been around a long time, some machine shops are really really good and some are in the habit of custom repairs and nontraditional solutions, they like it where an average shop shrugs their shoulders. I've collaborated with a couple on some very custom repairs you couldn't find a shop to look at and been impressed at what they can make look easy. The pulleys definitely fail quite often and it's only due to lack of grease, installing old ones is a bad idea for long term reliability. Given the age of the car I try hard to avoid preventable common failures like that.

The last XT6 timing belt I did had a seized pulley. It had run out of grease and locked solid, the belt just slides over the pulley which wears it faster and it breaks. I've seen that quite a few times over the years so I wasn't surprised.

I would suggest consumers show no love, rather than Subaru, they're just following the money trail. Though I can see blame both ways.

#10 idosubaru

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:16 PM

Good, yep that's the Xt6 set up.

19 and 23 are the two idler pulleys.
That's too bad you couldn't get any of those. When I checked around March of this year there were still a few of one of those two left, I forget which one.

get two of the orings #7 for the cam caps. Theyre like solid brittle plastic instead of pliable rubber over time. Super easy to replace with the belts off.

Edited by idosubaru, 10 August 2017 - 08:18 PM.


#11 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:36 PM

I have new oem cam seals and orings,  oem oil pump oring and mickey mouse gasket. Nippon Victor Rienze head gaskets, oem valve cover gaskets, oem front and rear crank seals, oem oil pan and oil seperator gaskets.  I also have a new oem waterpump, gasket, oem thermostat and housing gasket.  I'll do a compete tuneup using Intermotor, Bosch and NGK stuff.  And of course I will save every piece I replace.

 

I'm not gonna worry about the idler pulleys.  From what I see as far as previous work done, the engine was out  and new timing belts were probably done at least once already.  

 

Do you remember where you saw one of these pulleys?  A Subaru parts website?  We should raid this secret warehouse in WA!  I'll keep searching for these elusive idler pulleys.


Edited by 89XT6, 10 August 2017 - 09:17 PM.


#12 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:56 PM

I found the idler pulleys 13073AA020 and 13073AA040 here: https://www.sbsubaru.parts.  They will most likely get back to me, saying they are NLA, but you never know until you try.  

And they are $$$



#13 idosubaru

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:51 PM

I don't recall where. Seems like I would have noted in my mind if it wasn't a Subaru dealer.

XT6 Oil pump doesn't take an oring. You may have meant a seal but the EA82 oil pump does have an additional oring the XT6 doesn't have even though the pumps are very similar. that's confused people before.
XT6 oil pumps have a Mickey Mouse gasket and shaft seal.
EA82s have both of those an an oring.

#14 89XT6

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:58 PM

I found a bearing supplier/manufacturer.  They need to know the dimensions of this Idler pulley 5OSTD61DWAX bearing.

 

Do you know these dimensions? 

 

Yes, I meant oil pump seal, not o-ring


Edited by 89XT6, 10 August 2017 - 10:02 PM.


#15 Subaru Scott

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:21 PM

Get the numbers off the old bearings and any bearing house can match them.

 

EDIT: never mind, just read the other thread, no numbers on them. I concur with idosubaru, take them to a machine shop. They can either mill a little out or add a sleeve to make them accept a standard bearing.


Edited by Subaru Scott, 10 August 2017 - 10:31 PM.


#16 89XT6

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:57 PM

Ok, I'll find a bearing shop and have them look at the idler pulleys when I take them off.  I imagine that milling a bit is better than adding a sleeve, depending on the amount. Both of these pulleys are no longer available through Subaru and I don't see anything on the web.  I'll have the rest of the necessary parts for the re-seal of the engine by next week and will post new threads as I come across any issues or questions.



#17 idosubaru

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:23 PM

Get the numbers off the old bearings and any bearing house can match them.

EDIT: never mind, just read the other thread, no numbers on them. I concur with idosubaru, take them to a machine shop. They can either mill a little out or add a sleeve to make them accept a standard bearing.


Yeah needs a machine shop.

I posted the bearing numbers on the face seals, they're listed above. I have talked to a couple bearing suppliers and two or three NSK (original bearing manufacturer) employees and none of them could get anywhere on those bearings.

there was a company selling a few sets on eBay. They were $299/$399 for a long time until the last year or two when they jumped to $699 or $799. I talked to an employee who said he'd send me a picture of the pulleys but never did. I wanted to see what they were. The eBay pics weren't high enough resolution to see. maybe they were just OEM supplier stuff they buy in bulk and repackage?

#18 idosubaru

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:26 PM

Those two pulleys with the weird bearing part number are additionally weird because the bearings don't press out. They need milled/drilled out as they're staked in, or I presume they are as I'm not a bearing expert. took mine to an automotive shop with a press and he said he couldn't get the bearings out with their press for me to measure them.

#19 89XT6

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:54 PM

I'll make sure not to mess with these unicorn pulleys!  I had another argument at the Subaru dealer today.  I showed them the incorrect part they show fitting the 2.7l, the toothed pulley.  They would not give me a refund... for their mistake!  So... I grabbed a cool retro t-shirt and walked out without paying.  

 

The mechanic doing most of the work used to work for Ramsey Subaru.  He tells me the Subaru master mechanic there owes him a favor.  With over 25 years experience with Subaru , he may have answers.  I will gladly share any info I can muster from this guy.

 

My XT6 was very well cared for by the previous owner.  Lots of mechanical work was done before I grabbed it, even the AC is retrofitted  to the new refrigerant.  If it wasn't for the oil and coolant seeping from everywhere (only two silver dollar size oil stains making it to the ground daily),  I wouldn't have much to fix.  I'm pretty sure the timing belts were changed at least once already, maybe twice.  I'll know when we crack it open next week.  You never know, maybe the idler pulleys were changed already, that would be sweet!  And if they spin and feel good, leave them be. Either way, I won't take a chance tearing up what I have and would only allow a confident bearing shop touch them.  


Edited by 89XT6, 12 August 2017 - 08:00 PM.


#20 idosubaru

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:37 PM

Yeah man enjoy the ride. Look forward to hearing what you find out.

Edited by idosubaru, 12 August 2017 - 09:39 PM.


#21 89XT6

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 09:48 AM

Updates!   :clap: 

 

Cam case and heads apart, internals look great.  Previous reseal used too much RTV or whatever it is.  Scraped and scraped and used brake cleaner and compressed air.  Victor Reinz head gaskets fit perfectly and IMO are OEM quality made in Japan.  Replaced all of the small rubber coated metal gaskets on the cam cases with Subaru OEM (the old ones were gunked up with RTV and I advise any reseal to replace these little suckers.  Head bolts are fine and reused after cleaning them and holes.  Don't forget to use a tiny bit of oil on the bolts!  

Existing timing tensioners felt fine but replaced with Subaru OEM.  The existing idler pulleys feel good, no play in the bearings, smooth, not tight or loose and not noisy (keeping my fingers crossed because these are NLA and I'm not taking them off).  All new Subaru OEM cam seals, o-rings, oil pump seal and MM gasket.  I'm using Gates Premium Power Grip timing belts.  I had 3 sets to choose from, Gates, Dayco and Beck Arnely.  Through RockAuto... Beck Arnley seem to be flavor of the day, they are not a manufacturer, so they supply whatever fits and sent me 2 different brands, stupid.  one was good, the other was an old dried up Subaru OEM that felt like a rubber band before it snaps!  The Dayco are good, but the Gates are better IMO (Made in USA). 

And, once again and again, Subaru parts websites mislead me.  I had to return head gaskets, idler pulleys and a water pump.  These parts are NLA for the 2.7L, so their website needs to be updated and managed better (I can understand that it is also my job to investigate thoroughly, but the diagrams are too vague).

I have an Airtex waterpump coming tomorrow, then we can continue the reseal.  I have a new gasket and o-ring for the metal pipe and a new Subaru OEM thermostat.

Other new Subaru OEM gaskets going on are valve cover and grommets, front and rear crank seals, oil pan and separator.

I  have new Subaru OEM upper and lower radiator hoses, inlet/outlet heater hoses, and some PCV  hoses.  The transmission cooler hoses look bad, they will be replaced with off the shelf hose, no big deal.  

Also, I have a complete tune kit ready, using Bosch, Intermotor, Mitsubishi, NGK and Optima yellow top.  Don't forget to re-do your grounds in the engine bay, they are all corroded and exposed at the connectors!  I used a dremmel to clean the contact surface, cut and crimped new quality connectors and used heat shrink and shiny new hardware with a bit of battery grease.  

Keep all of your old parts for... I don't know, just hold on to them, they are rare.



#22 Subaru Scott

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:31 AM

Sounds like the build is going great. She'll be a nice car when you're done!

 

WAY back when I was into my EA82T, I got tired of the leaky RTV sealed cam cases and found some bulk o-ring material. Can't remember now what size it was but it laid in the cam case groove nicely, and was just slightly proud enough to get good squish. Super glue the ends together at the top. Reusable, and didn't leak.



#23 89XT6

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:44 PM

Almost done! 

 

We're following the FSM now, to make sure we don't miss anything.  Fired her up with the ECU connectors in the trunk plugged into each other and timing set up nice.  

But... after we heard a tick!  One of the valve lash adjusters seized up, passenger side rear.  I ordered a new one.  I noticed, before my reseal adventure, that once in a while on startup, I would hear a tick or three, then nice and quiet, thinking the valve lash adjusters are just doing their job and one of them is getting stuck a bit.  I'm pretty sure it was the bad one we found.  

Should be finished by next week, but you never know, strange things can happen like this little bugger VLA.

 

Any experienced opinions on this or suggestions on the initial set up and fire up?  

I know... we did all new OEM gaskets but maybe mickey mouse got sucked in?  A new oil pump costs $225  :angry:, no thanks. 







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