part number for a 99 Forester 2.5 five speed M/T ecu

[teleski]

I am putting a 1999 Forester 2.5 engine in an 84 VW. The Forester had an A/T but there will a five speed Subaru M/T in the VW, does anyone know the part number for the five speed ecu? The p/t number for the a/t  ecu that was in the car is 22611 AE860. Also, is there any other model the M/T ecu can come out of? Thanks   Gary

[matt167]

Looks like there is an early and late 1999, and they use the same ECU numbers, but the programming is different.

 

2 recommendations I have. One is buy the intake manifold and wiring harness for a 2000-2002 Forester with a manual trans. Those cars were speed density and if your staying stock, you do not need to worry about the MAF sensor

 

2nd recommendation would be to buy Project Lambda tuning and tune the 5spd tune onto it. Other handy things the program can do besides tune the engine for better performance is, turn off the emissions systems so you can delete them and not have CEL's.

[WoodsWagon]

Auto/manual ECU's are usually interchangable, you need to add a ground pin to one of the ECU connectors to tell it that its now running a manual trans setup. The change is made in the wiring and the ECU runs the program to match. 

[idosubaru]

The Forester had an A/T but there will a five speed Subaru M/T in the VW, does anyone know the part number for the five speed ecu?

 

No need to, here's how you do it: 

1.  repin the wiring harness to identify it as an MT (Subaru ECU's run either one)

2.  Install an MT drivers side cam sprocket and crank sprocket. 

 

Without going into massive dialogue and explanations and years and Phases which would likely pop into your mind - just follow those directions and that's all you need.  But a cursory explanation of why goes roughly like this: 

 

Subaru ECU's are not transmission dependent - they can run either one.  They see one identifier pin that tells it whether it's an AT or MT and adapt and run it accordingly.  So even if you bought an "MT" ECU - your donor wiring harness would be pinned incorrectly anyway.  Your options are to swap the intake manifold and wiring harness (a silly amount of parts and work and effort) or modify that one pin at the ECU (very easy). 

 

For SOHC EJ25's around 99-04 the AT's and MT's have different trigger marks - so when you repin the ECU it will be looking for "MT" trigger marks.  But the engines and everything are otherwise identical so all you have to do is swap the drivers side cam sprocket and crank sprocket where the trigger marks reside.  Don't let this freak you out - it's just as easy as I've just explained.  Every other timing pulley, sensor, and everything are identical.  Just swap those two parts, that's it.  Buy used from the forum here, ebay, or new from Subaru might be worth checking.  or www.car-part.com and look for a core engine. 

 

I am putting a 1999 Forester 2.5 engine

That's a SOHC Phase II EJ25 which is the same as the following engines: 

 

99 Forester and Impreza RS

00-04 all EJ25's. 

 

There's a couple minor differences like the AT/MT trigger marks mentioned above and I think there's a MAF and MAP set up - but the intake manifolds and long blocks, all the timing gear, heads, etc are all interchangeable. 

[matt167]

That's not really accurate. Starting in 1999 with phase 2, Auto and manual were different ECU's and they started using Denso ECU's in 1999 although they were not common. The Denso ECU's are the ones with different trigger marks. It's not an Auto/ Manual break. The phase 2 2.2L's got the Denso ECU and some Legacy models. Foresters all Have JECS from 1999- at least 2002

 

1999 uses a MAF setup and later than that uses a MAP setup but also has Air assisted injectors so the intakes are not interchangable

[idosubaru]

Error - 

Edited September 2, 2017 by idosubaru

[idosubaru]

Starting in 1999 with phase 2, Auto and manual were different ECUs

others have modified the pin to work though. Are you saying this because the part numbers are different - because those are essentially meaningless as Subaru has changed part numbers on ECUs hourly for decades, or are you saying that for some other reason?

 

Here's someone that modified the pin and CCR employee mentioning doing it all the time on conversions...which also happens to be VW related!

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/157949-ej25-sohc-ecu-difference-for-manual-or-automatic-transmission/

[idosubaru]

Any 99-04 EJ25 long block will run if you have all of these parts from the same vehicle:
Intake

Wiring harness

Cam/crank sprockets

ECU

Presumably in this case it's all from a 99 forester - so I'm thinking you only need to ground your identifier PIN. 

And I'd personally be prepared to swap the D/S cam and crank sprockets to the alternate style just in case.

 

There are two styles of cam and crank sprockets but they are entirely interchangeable.  It's common on 99-04 EJ25's to swap an engine and it doesn't run until you swap the D/S crank and D/S cam due to those trigger marks.

 

I'm not sure I've ever heard definitively how to tell which 99-04 vehicles have which style trigger marks but i've heard it said, that it's an AT or MT difference and it has seemed true to me - but it's not super common (which I always assumed was because of how few MT's exist) so I'm not 100% convinced of the reason.  But the reason doesn't much matter - there's only two options, if it doesn't run, just swap to the other set.  

 

1999 uses a MAF setup and later than that uses a MAP setup but also has Air assisted injectors so the intakes are not interchangable

Ah right - MAF verses MAP. I think this is usually true:

MAP has the big air filter box bolted right to the throttle body - air filter resides just behind the engine. 

MAF has the long intake hose to the air filter on the passengers side of the vehicle/engine bay. 

 

Which one do you have?  I think 99's are usually MAF but not always.  

 

If you start swapping intakes/ECU's/wiring harnesses you may be mixing and matching stuff. 

 

I'd try to retain all of the 1999 Forester set up together as much as possible and only replace what's absolutely necessary. 

[matt167]

others have modified the pin to work though. Are you saying this because the part numbers are different - because those are essentially meaningless as Subaru has changed part numbers on ECUs hourly for decades, or are you saying that for some other reason?

 

Here's someone that modified the pin and CCR employee mentioning doing it all the time on conversions...which also happens to be VW related!

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/157949-ej25-sohc-ecu-difference-for-manual-or-automatic-transmission/

 

No, the ECU numbers are actually the same.. The programming on them is unique to manual or automatic as far as I know. They only contain one flash but yes grounding the pin disables the Automatic functions. Idle speeds and such will still be set for Automatic ect...

 

That's why I suggested Project Lambda. It can turn off all the emissions systems and would be ghost CEL codes and write whichever tune to the ECU.. 1999 Forester has one of the tunable ECU's

 

As far as the break on trigger styles, They used 2 brands of ECU's in that time period. JECS and Denso.. JECS uses the 6/7 trigger pattern which goes back to about 1990 and then the Denso uses a more accurate 36-2-2-2 trigger pattern which is what they used from basically 2004- on.. The EJ22 phase 2's used the Denso unit, and I'm pretty sure some of the Legacy/ Outback models did as well.

[teleski]

Thanks to all. I will pass all this on to the shop doing the conversion. The wiring harness has been redone so it is set up for the change, and the engine is a complete 99. Thanks again.  Gary