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Freshly rebuilt EA82...not so fresh! driving me nuts

ea82 rebuild timming belt low power heating slug loyale 5mt goingnuts

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30 replies to this topic

#1 Jugizmo

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 03:20 PM

Ok Guys, Greetings from Chile. First time Loyale owner, 1989  1.8 ea82, carbed 5 MT /DR.  Lots of previous owners, rough life and history.

Lets hope  any of the Gurus here can lend me a hand.

 

A week after i got it, and without any signs of overheating head gasket on passanger side went off, just sitting iddle on the driveway :lol: . From there on it was engine out and rebuild, I have done the following so far:

-Full gaskets (Intake, Exhaust, heads, oilpan)

-Resurface heads(  usual cracks between the valves found, did nothing)

-Polished piston cilinders (Cilinder N°3 had a broken ring and was scratched)

-New rings

-New timming belt kits

-"New-ish" valves, couldnt find them brand new arround here ( a couple of the old ones had cracks in their heads, so they had to go)

-Helicoil in sparkplug hole #1 and #4.

-Helicoil and new studs on exhaust drivers side.

-New filters all arround

-New heating elements hoses.

 

Oil and water pump havent been touched.

Mechanich crash course it has been

 

Took it to the emisison test, and it did not pass. Cilinder 1 was low on compression and running on 3 cilinders.

TImming belt was off one tooth, fixed it...still wont pass...but almost. A little tinkering with the carb screws and presto, emission passed, now street legal.

Took it on a highway and street test, all seemed fine, smoother than ever, little noise, Kinda torquey! and averaging 29 MPG Life seemed good!

Yesterday on the ride home (some 40 miles up the mountains)  Hot it went ( outside temp barely 60F)...halway up the road it felt kinda slugish, low on power, always kept it between 2.000 and 3.000 rpm range, and the needle kept creeping its way up, when it reached halfway mark i slowed down on the side of the road and it kep going up until the red zone...started praying and it went down Ha Ha, after that i let it sit, and then cheked all fluids, all was good.oil, coolant, everything... :blink:

Kept driving her, and then again after a some 10 miles..Temp started going up again everytime a hill was on sight. Intake and exhaust hoses for the radiator, both hot and seem to be flowin ok.

 

So here i am, with a freshly rebuilt ea82 that doesnt seem to wanna stay ...well...fresh nor cold..

 

Sooo...What could cause it to  feel low on power, kinda draggy, and at the same time could cause overheating ?

*It is Not, burning oil, drinking coolant, nor dripping in any excess way, there is a small oil leak from the oilpump pulley, and Hidraulic fluid leek from the steering as far as i can see.

** There is a kinda of rattling arround the 3.000 rpm mark, under load, like a tinggling, or bell-like sound.(maybe valve rattling)

 



#2 ferp420

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 03:35 PM

A bad Radiator whould cause it to get hot and getting hot will cause it to run slugish untill it cools

#3 Jugizmo

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 03:37 PM

A bad Radiator whould cause it to get hot and getting hot will cause it to run slugish untill it cools

 

Radiator wash "flushed" before install, fins all straight, electric fan working OK. 
Car felt slugish, from before it started to get warm :(



#4 ferp420

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 06:53 PM

Timing ?

#5 Dee2

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 09:10 PM

bad thermostat ?



#6 Crazyeights

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 09:17 PM

I would suggest flow testing the radiator to make sure that it isn't plugged up. Simply hook up a garden hose to one outlet and watch the other one flow, or not.



#7 Al Zhiemer

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 10:17 PM

Thermostat and radiator cap would be where i would start.

Cheers

#8 jono

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:37 AM

I would run it without thermostat to see if any change. Also found the gauge temp sender below thermostat can be unreliable after so many years. Mine only ever showed no more than 1\4 until I swapped in a cleaned used one. I would never run these 82's beyond 2/3 on gauge

#9 jono

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:40 AM

Tinkling noise sounds like pre ignition or pinging which is too much timing advance for the fuel. How many grades of fuel? Running cheapest or best? Low comp on one cylinder not going too fix itself. Sounds like a rebuild again

#10 Gloyale

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 12:11 PM

Timing ?

 

+1



#11 Jugizmo

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 05:25 PM

Thermostat and radiator cap would be where i would start.

Cheers

I have a really cheap looking aftermarket cap, but it does actually allow the overflow to go up the reservoir when hot.

Ill have to take a look at driving without the thermostat ;)

 

Tinkling noise sounds like pre ignition or pinging which is too much timing advance for the fuel. How many grades of fuel? Running cheapest or best? Low comp on one cylinder not going too fix itself. Sounds like a rebuild again

 Was using medium grade (95 oct) , and filled it up the last time with the cheapest (93 oct) ,Didnt felt much diference in anything except it got hot.

The comp on the cilinders was "low-ish" (1)130-(3)145-(2)150-(4)155 .

Triying to get the "rebuild again" thing out of my mind....if not...well that would be a bummer.

 

Could the timming advance cause it to run hot, and low on power when going between 2.500 and 3.500 rpm?



#12 djellum

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:02 AM

id redo the timing and the carb adjust.  you may be off on your timing and attempting to tune the carb to adjust for it.  i could believe just setting it really lean might cause what your saying.  low power under load but really responsive on flat ground, and fuel is a coolant in the combustion chamber.  I dont think this is your main problem but it could be A problem.

 

what procedure did you use to do the timing and tune the carb? 



#13 subnz

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:21 AM

If the increase in temperature  /  overheating happens as going up hill is an indication that the radiator isn't flowing well enough.

 

Agree need to take off and get it flow tested by a radiator specialist

 

Running water through it with a hose isn't good enough. It doesn't test flow volume vs time.

 

Had issues with my 86 EA82 at 120 K miles.   Heater core blocked and engine started to get hotter every time went up a hill.

 

 

Took radiator out and got it flow tested by a radiator specialist and it was 85% blocked / scaled up with hard white scale.  

(still ran water through it but not enough volume vs time   and only through unblocked  part of it.)

 

 They took radiator  apart and physically rodded out the hard scale out of the cores.

 

What caused this - neglect by previous owners  not following recommendations in owners / service manual  ie change coolant every 2 years


Edited by subnz, 11 September 2017 - 03:42 AM.


#14 Len Dawg

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:55 PM

They could have followed recommendations but they could be adding tap water to top it off would do make it do that... water will release unwanted calcium,iron etc when heated. Use only distilled or spring water. And a 50/50 is always auggested ;)

Edited by Len Dawg, 11 September 2017 - 05:57 PM.


#15 Al Zhiemer

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:20 PM

Running the car without a thermostat can also cause the car to over heat as the flow of water through the system is to fast, not allowing it enough time to pass through the radiator and cool down.

Cheers

#16 jono

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:18 AM

Always heard above theory but never experienced it when running t stat free between minus 5 to plus 40 C

#17 DaveT

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 07:12 AM

I've run a couple engines without thermostats temporarily. I did not find that to be what happens. The engine never gets to operating temperature.

While the coolant isn't in the radiator long, it is not in the engine long either, thus moving heat out quicker.

#18 Al Zhiemer

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 01:46 AM

Yeah that is true, you can get away without running a thermostat and not have the vehicle getting hot. But like I said, it can also cause it to over heat if there isn't enough airflow through the radiator, in stop start traffic where you are sitting idling behind cars for extended periods of time. I have personally experienced this on 2 of my vehicles, admittedly neither of them were stock vehicles. My point was that it is not always wise to run without the thermostat, you are more than welcome to do what ever you wish, at the end of the day, its your motor. I one of my vehicles I have even removed the fans and never experienced it over heating, drove it around like that for years and only ever seen it get hot in stop start traffic.

Cheers

#19 djellum

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 06:02 AM

ive ran them without thermostats with no issue besides cold blooded.  that said, its fine to get you home but for troubleshooting its a bad idea.  introduces yet another variable and possible problem to the stack.  if your troubleshooting things and you feel something might be the culprit. you will do yourself a service to fix it right in the first place.

 

buy a dealership thermo if you can get one.  only a few dollars more but much better quality than the aftermarkets.  I have had bad luck with the fail open ones.



#20 Sapper 157

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 09:13 PM

Thermostat most likely... or bad rad/rad cap. I had this same issue with my EA81 until I replaced those three things. Now it runs cool as a cucumber. Make sure to use OEM tstat

#21 Jugizmo

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 05:11 PM

First of all, thank you for such fast responses, and sorry for not been able to get back sooner.

 

As it turns out, i came to chek the timming, twice and thrice, and what do you know...it was bad by two theets on the drivers side cam.

Funny thing since i have already cheked that.....the cause for it went bad again is a stripped bolt on one of the belt tensioner thats causing that belt to come loose, and probably under load, it skipped a thoot. i barely got it thight enough and preparing for a 65 mile ride down to town at night with few tools..fingers crossed!!

Having that helicoiled tomorrow i hope.

 

id redo the timing and the carb adjust.  you may be off on your timing and attempting to tune the carb to adjust for it.  i could believe just setting it really lean might cause what your saying.  low power under load but really responsive on flat ground, and fuel is a coolant in the combustion chamber.  I dont think this is your main problem but it could be A problem.

 

what procedure did you use to do the timing and tune the carb? 

 

The procedure used to adjust the timming and tune the carb could be described as "Going by ear"..as in  they didnt use the stroboscopic light for the timmin, and a guy at the exhaust shop messed with the carbing in order for it to pass the emission tests. So most probably not timmed correctly nor advanced correctly , plus belt on drivers side comming loose.

Could that alone cause the overheating under load on slope?

 

If the increase in temperature  /  overheating happens as going up hill is an indication that the radiator isn't flowing well enough.

 

Agree need to take off and get it flow tested by a radiator specialist

 

Running water through it with a hose isn't good enough. It doesn't test flow volume vs time.

 

Had issues with my 86 EA82 at 120 K miles.   Heater core blocked and engine started to get hotter every time went up a hill.

 

 

Took radiator out and got it flow tested by a radiator specialist and it was 85% blocked / scaled up with hard white scale.  

(still ran water through it but not enough volume vs time   and only through unblocked  part of it.)

 

 They took radiator  apart and physically rodded out the hard scale out of the cores.

 

What caused this - neglect by previous owners  not following recommendations in owners / service manual  ie change coolant every 2 years

 

Radiator specialist is something of a rarity here in rural county, Chile, but im gonna see what i can do/or find.

In the meantime, a new thermosthat, and oil dipstick its on its way from U s and A.

 

Is a OEM radiator cap needed, or just an aftermarket new one?

 

As another point of reference, i do not have heating on the inside of the car...there is some heat comming from the feets of the passenger, but y cannot for the love of Jebus get it to fire in any other direction...was planning on attacking that issue later on, but do you guys think i could be somehow related to the engine overheating?

 

 

 

thanks again! ;)



#22 Gloyale

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 06:37 PM

The procedure used to adjust the timming and tune the carb could be described as "Going by ear"..as in  they didnt use the stroboscopic light for the timmin, and a guy at the exhaust shop messed with the carbing in order for it to pass the emission tests. So most probably not timmed correctly nor advanced correctly , plus belt on drivers side comming loose.

Could that alone cause the overheating under load on slope?

 

Yes.

 

 Lean mixture = overheat under load

 

Improper Ig. timing = overheat underload/pinging.



#23 subnz

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 11:49 PM

Driving test for assessing  correct ignition timing.

 

Full throttle from 2000rpm  in 3rd gear - sluggish acceleration and  possible  backfiring  if bad  - ignition timing                                                                                                                                                                      retarded

 

                                                               - slight detonation (pinging)  on initial full acceleration - timing correct.

                                                                   

                                            - heavy detonation  (pinging / knocking) -  timing too advanced or  low octane fuel.     


Edited by subnz, 22 September 2017 - 11:50 PM.


#24 Gloyale

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 11:55 AM

Driving test for assessing  correct ignition timing.

 

Full throttle from 2000rpm  in 3rd gear - sluggish acceleration and  possible  backfiring  if bad  - ignition timing                                                                                                                                                                      retarded

 

                                                               - slight detonation (pinging)  on initial full acceleration - timing correct.

                                                                   

                                            - heavy detonation  (pinging / knocking) -  timing too advanced or  low octane fuel.     

 

Or use a timing light.

 

It's this nifty tool they make for actually doing this job correctly!!



#25 wagons

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 09:52 PM

I noticed you did not mention a water pump, has this been replaced? Mine did the same, sluggish and got hot on hills. I timed mine to 10° btdc and also had to replace water pump. Make sure your heater hoses are all correct, and the heat issue seems vacuum related to the controller. Also use only distilled water as hard water can take only days to build deposits, especially in over heating situations. Think of boiling water in an all stainless pan until its gone, residue builds up as the water evaporates.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ea82, rebuild, timming belt, low power, heating, slug, loyale, 5mt, goingnuts

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