MR_Loyale Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) I have found that in the mornings when I start my Loyale, I will get some clattering. I let it run for a few minutes and then shut off the engine for a minute. When I restart the engine, often the tick goes away. If anyone else gives this a try, please report your results. Edited November 8, 2017 by MR_Loyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Lifter tick? Or something deeper? Bad idler bearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I have (what I think is) a lifter tick in mine. Usually, it's only with the first start up of the day, but on colder days it can be a little more often. It only lasts between 30 seconds and 2 minutes, or until I start driving it and the oil gets moved around. Starting and restarting sometimes works as well, or revving up the engine a couple times. No clattering sounds though; just a repetitious tick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish-N-Fool Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 99 times out of 100 it needs new seals in the oil pump when they start ticking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I have fixed it 2 ways. Reseal the oil pump. Or full engine reseal, which includes the pump. I also run Amsoil synthetic, but can't say if that has any effect. Everything is just cleaner than other engines I've gotten used, that were running most likely nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136547-ea82-er27-ticking-tod-hydraulic-valve-lash-hla-noise-diagnose-and-repair/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Dawg Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) I used to do that, but as of the passing of years I don't bother... i religiously check oil level every 3 days and always wait to fully warm up before driving down the road or mountain trails, I've changed many of seals as Dave T stated but to no avail... still TOD when it's hot mid day evening summer winter raining snowing I've even added Risoline,STP motor oil treatment,Lucas oil treatment,Motor Honey which did nothing but kill my after market oil pressure gauge!! Lol! Pennzoil, Castrol, Cheap stuff expensive stuff high mileage stuff 40w 10w 40 10w 30 changed oil filter manufacture to Wix Napa- stay away from fram from what I read everywhere- my next oil change filter came with STP Filter we will see how that goes 293,000+ miles and still ticking after 11 yrs..people always freakout!! ????????????????☹ dude you got rod knock!! And I say really? What do ya know about Subaru? Should i put roller tip rockers in? Lol! Although!!! Although!! There have been times where it has not!! And that to me becomes concerning! Is there oil flow?? I dont hear the pulsating tick!! Lol! Edited November 9, 2017 by Len Dawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I just turn the key and drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Dawg Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Lol! I pray and meditate I don't get smashed out there while waiting for the warm up cycle to complete.. lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 In some cases I've seen on here, there are actually stuck lifters. I do check oil and coolant levels each am before first drive of the car. Waiting to see the temp gauge over normal is NOT how to check coolant level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehead Saloon Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I'm currently solving the TOD issue myself on an EA81. 1. Running diesel engine oil for the added detergents. On its own no change to sound. 2. Added repco brand lifter tune up bottle to the fresh oil and filter. 2000kms later the noise volume is halved. 3. Dumped oil and filter and refilled with same. 4. Shimmed oil pump pressure releif spring to increase oil pressure (its an old pump). Noise decrease again after 500kms running. Its now only 25% of original TOD. Next step is to get inside the rocker boxes and adjust the tappets. My motor has hyd lifters and I beleive I finally found out how to adjust them from an ancient fsm scan I got my hands on. Basically the gist is this. Look up the proceedure for solid lifter adjustment and follow that until its time to start turning adjusters. Get no.1 on tdc. All the valves you can adjust at this point proceed thus: - Undo locknuts. - Screw adjusters inwards 4 full turns. - Wait 15 mins for lifters to bleed down. - Screw adjusters outwards until rocker arm stops moving. This is zero lash point with the hydraulic lifters collapsed. -Screw adjusters outwards another 1.5 turns and lock down locknuts. - Rotate engine as per manual lifter adjustment and set remaining lifter clearances. I'll be doing this after I rack up another 1000kms on the oil/lifter tune. See how quiet I can make it after 211,000 kms. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montermahan Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Tried all the snake oil fixes, changed oil pump seals 2 times. stretched bypass spring. put in new o-ring's . The only thing that fixed mine was new HLA' 5,000 miles ago. Still quiet (so far) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Turn the radio up real loud on a station whose music is more annoying than the lifter tick. It works every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 If you really want to solve it, this is the answer: 1. Remove the cylinder heads and have a machine shop re-sleeve the lifter bores. They wear - sometimes to the point that you can't even remove the lifters easily. This is not a simple process and has to be done with custom made parts and machine work. Basically it's not feasible and you end up looking for replacement heads which don't exist..... 2. New oil pump, rebuilt or new lifters, and cam tower seals. In most cases the cause is a combination of factors, and addressing one thing - like the oil pump seals, and the cam tower o-rings, may increase pressure and relieve aeration enough to stop the audible lifter noise, but it will return shortly. I have had low mileage examples of EA82's that had the tick despite doing EVERYTHING in catagory #2. After all that it went away for 10k miles or so but eventually came back. I also owned an '86 EA82 that was one owner and meticulously maintained - never ticked a day in it's life despite having 275k miles on it. Maintenance had prevented wear to the lifter bore sleeves. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 1. Remove the cylinder heads and have a machine shop re-sleeve the lifter bores. They wear - sometimes to the point that you can't even remove the lifters easily. This is not a simple process and has to be done with custom made parts and machine work. Basically it's not feasible and you end up looking for replacement heads which don't exist..... Uh..... How do you propose that a hole with a HLA sitting still in it is going to wear? If they "wear" to the point of being stuck in the head, I would say that the clearances are pretty tight, and the oil is going into the HLA, not leaking out the top of it's bucket. The HLA bores are NOT the problem. #1 problem to address is oil pump SHAFT SEAL. Not just the Mickey and the big o-ring......gotta change that shaft seal, correctly, without damaging rotor during R+R. #2 Cam Tower O-rings, and seal of Cam tower to the center of the head. #3 Failed HLA.....not common, they are simple devices. Ussually they just are stuck and can be rehabed. Worst case remans are available for pretty cheap Search "mizpah" If none of this helps, it can mean the pump is too weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) I've installed new Subaru pumps (these came with the shaft seal pre-installed by Subaru, when you could still get them), rebuilt HLA's from Mizpah, and every seal and gasket in the entire engine (straight from Subaru) and still had it come back in 10-20k. The HLA sleeves develop a ridge at the top that doesn't allow the HLA's to come out of the bore, and I've also seen the sleeves shift in the casting resulting in some being at different heights in the bore and likely interrupting their oil flow passages with the head casting. How else do you explain engines with 275k and no ticking (even after HG failure and replacement just from mileage), against identical year engines with 150k where the tick will not go away no matter what you do short of replacing the heads? I'm sure it's not 100% of the problem, and it's not seen on 100% of engines, but it certainly seemed to be a persistent observation on my part when I was working on those regularly. I only work on one EA82T on a regular basis anymore and that one has not had any ticking problems. We forsee it's death on the horizon and the customer is already planning a 22T swap.... The only other alternative is significantly increased main and rod bearing clearances causing a pressure drop.... which equally can't be solved at the monetary input levels of the current owner base. Pretty much a lost cause at that point since even if you rebuilt the rotating assembly, the oil pump would be garbage and you can't buy those.... ..... Dead platform. GD Edited November 15, 2017 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 GD - Are you saying that the sleeves that get the Ridge worn that makes them stick in the sleeve get that way because the sleeve is too high, or moved out of the cast aluminum? I'm curious, since I have at least 1 head with pretty stuck in lifters, where most they just pull out fairly easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Could be part of the problem. I never investigated it fully - it was easier to just ignore it or find another head. But I've seen multiple heads with the lifter sleeves at various heights in the casting and many heads where the lifters just will not come out. What else but a fornicated sleeve would cause that? The sleeves are soft, while the lifter is generally very hard. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) GD is exactly right about the sleeves. That very thing happened to mine when I redid it 4 years ago. The machinist was able to chamfer the sleeves Edited November 17, 2017 by MR_Loyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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