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Weber jetting at altitude, Colorado?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 winmag4582001

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:27 AM

New to the forum and I imagine this has been discussed, but....

 

Bought a 1984 GL 1.8L from a guy for a little bit of nothing. $400. He did the Weber conversion and had problems passing emissions in Colorado.

HC was a hair over limit       Fail                   5.8 actual   limit 5            Idling a little rich

CO was twice the limit         Fail                   122 actual   limit 55         Running very rich

NOx was well below limit     Pass                 1.2 actual    limit 5           Catalytic converter is good

 

Doing an initial check, it's due for a tune up, plugs, cap, rotor, coil. Conversion seems to have been done right and no vacuum leeks are present.

Inspecting the carb, choke was way off and the idle a/f adjustment screw was very rich to the point the car would die at idle when warm. 

 

I set the choke, a/f, idle and timing. Idles good and doesn't die anymore. I did notice when I opened the carb both the main primary and secondary jets are a 130. Which seems rich at altitude and may be causing the car to fail the CO miserably. Looking at his failed emissions, I think it would currently pass the HC and NOx with the a/f and choke adjustments, but the CO is so high that I'm thinking the only way to lower that would be to go down on main jetting, possibly a 120 primary and 115 secondary. I'm also thinking of lowering the floats... And a tune up.

 

Driving the car it seems to bog and take a long time to gain RPM. It's been years since I've messed with carbs, and when I did, I was at sea level.

 

On a good note, the car doesn't smoke a bit. 

 

Any opinions are welcome!

 

Brett


Edited by winmag4582001, 15 November 2017 - 01:31 AM.


#2 wagons

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:39 PM

Redline Weber sells a high altitude jet kit. Start there and move forward

#3 winmag4582001

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 04:17 AM

Thank you. 



#4 winmag4582001

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:44 AM

Passed emissions today! 

Took the a/f screw on bottom of the carb in until the motor dropped roughly 50 rpm, fully opened the choke, set the timing at 6 degrees BTDC @ 700rpm and changed the fouled spark plugs. I didn't end up changing any of the jetting. 

By the time I get tags and repair the front CV I'll be into less than $600. Should be an awesome winter vehicle!



#5 wagons

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 05:56 AM

Score! Good to hear. Might want to change jets regardless just to have improved power and economy

#6 iceageg

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 08:15 AM

You will be very happy with that vehicle this winter.  Provided you don't expect to maintain the speed limit going into the hills.  Glad to hear you got it passed.  I have to renew the tags on mine soon.  Will be the first attempt with the rebuild + weber.



#7 winmag4582001

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:15 AM

You will be very happy with that vehicle this winter.  Provided you don't expect to maintain the speed limit going into the hills.  Glad to hear you got it passed.  I have to renew the tags on mine soon.  Will be the first attempt with the rebuild + weber.

 

Any idea of what air and emulsion jets are in your carb? I didn't get any paperwork from the guy on the Weber he installed, I'm thinking he ordered the kit but never ordered high altitude jets. If you know what jets you have, let me know. I'd like to fine tune mine a little more.

 

FWIW     I did my emissions at the I25 and HWY 52 station by Dacono. It's never busy there and the staff actually tries to get things to pass emissions. It's right behind Earthroamer and Vans Industrial Rental. 



#8 winmag4582001

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:30 AM

Another stupid question.....

Do I need to adjust valves on these little motors? I'm not familiar with Subaru's older than 1998. 

My son's 82 BMW has to have the valves checked about every other month. But he does run the piss out of it....

Thanks



#9 Sapper 157

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 07:19 PM

Another stupid question.....
Do I need to adjust valves on these little motors? I'm not familiar with Subaru's older than 1998. 
My son's 82 BMW has to have the valves checked about every other month. But he does run the piss out of it....
Thanks

It depends. Some models of the EA81 had hydraulic lifters, while most had solid lifters. Look on your valve covers, if you see a sticker that says “do not adjust valves” then you have hydro lifters and they require no adjustment. If you have no sticker, then you have solid and need to adjust them every 10,000 miles or so. Factory settings are .010” for intake and .014” for exhaust, however the lash can be taken down even more if you have ticking problems on a solid lifter engine.

#10 winmag4582001

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:51 AM

It depends. Some models of the EA81 had hydraulic lifters, while most had solid lifters. Look on your valve covers, if you see a sticker that says “do not adjust valves” then you have hydro lifters and they require no adjustment. If you have no sticker, then you have solid and need to adjust them every 10,000 miles or so. Factory settings are .010” for intake and .014” for exhaust, however the lash can be taken down even more if you have ticking problems on a solid lifter engine.

 

Checked out both valve covers. There's no sticker on either.

I might pull one cover and check them to see if it feels like there's space in them.



#11 wagons

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:03 AM

Winmag, what elevation are you? I'm at 5200ft which isn't high, but enough so that my idle mixture is backed out 3.5 turns. Will be swapping the main idle jet which is a 50 for 60. That's what the prior owner had and it ran way smoother. Right now it idles at 850( cold mornings) and as soon as I touch he throttle it sputters and starves for fuel. Also need to play with time ng but I'll let you know in case it works for me

#12 iceageg

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:14 AM

Any idea of what air and emulsion jets are in your carb? I didn't get any paperwork from the guy on the Weber he installed, I'm thinking he ordered the kit but never ordered high altitude jets. If you know what jets you have, let me know. I'd like to fine tune mine a little more.

 

FWIW     I did my emissions at the I25 and HWY 52 station by Dacono. It's never busy there and the staff actually tries to get things to pass emissions. It's right behind Earthroamer and Vans Industrial Rental. 

I have the standard jets in mine that Redline ships with all of their 32/36's.  I did order a high altitude jet kit with it and I still have all of those jets unused.  When I did my rebuild I shaved the heads .020 and installed a Delta Cam so I left the standard jets in thinking that the additional changes to the engine would have needed more fuel than normal anyway.  So far it runs great but I have not had to do emissions yet.  I am hoping I can drive by a couple of the roadside stations and get it passed that way instead since it already passed pre-rebuild.  I still have all of the paperwork and the labeled jets in the kit.  I can look them up if you like.  If you are ever on the south end of town we can meet up and you can take a look.

 

Another stupid question.....

Do I need to adjust valves on these little motors? I'm not familiar with Subaru's older than 1998. 

My son's 82 BMW has to have the valves checked about every other month. But he does run the piss out of it....

Thanks

If memory serves 83 was the last year for solid lifters.  84+ should be self adjusting hydraulic lifters.  Hopefully somebody else can confirm.  As Sapper mentioned there were 1"x2" stickers that instruct you not to adjust them if equipped.  That doesn't mean the previous owner didn't swap something out at some point though.  I am not sure how you differentiate the solid lifters from the HLA's visually once the covers are removed.  If you dig around in here I'm sure it has been detailed at least once.  The FSM I have does not detail how to tell the difference.

 

Cheers



#13 wagons

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:12 PM

So I did swap my primary idle jet from a 50 to 60 and it made a huge difference. I am at 5200ft elevation and the car actually didn't fall flat on it's face right off idle. I'd really get the high altitude jet kit

#14 winmag4582001

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:40 PM

Winmag, what elevation are you? I'm at 5200ft which isn't high, but enough so that my idle mixture is backed out 3.5 turns. Will be swapping the main idle jet which is a 50 for 60. That's what the prior owner had and it ran way smoother. Right now it idles at 850( cold mornings) and as soon as I touch he throttle it sputters and starves for fuel. Also need to play with time ng but I'll let you know in case it works for me

 

I'm at 5200' also. Boulder is around 6k' and everything else is higher around here. I'll have to check my idle jet, haven't done that yet. I currently have my timing at 10 btdc at 750rpm. For emissions I backed it to 6 btdc to get a little cleaner burn during emissions. I got the choke tuned finally on the weber, choke engages under 50 degrees and have it high idle at 1200rpm. It does seem to have a slightly rough idle after the choke kicks off, possibly low idle fuel starving. 



#15 winmag4582001

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:54 PM

Winmag, what elevation are you? I'm at 5200ft which isn't high, but enough so that my idle mixture is backed out 3.5 turns. Will be swapping the main idle jet which is a 50 for 60. That's what the prior owner had and it ran way smoother. Right now it idles at 850( cold mornings) and as soon as I touch he throttle it sputters and starves for fuel. Also need to play with time ng but I'll let you know in case it works for me

 

Curiosity got to me. Went outside in the dark and checked the primary idle jet.... Mine is a #45. 



#16 winmag4582001

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:05 PM

So I changed my idle jet to a 55. Runs much better.

Still curious about what people at altitude are running for a primary main and secondary main jet. Mine are both 130's.

 

Thanks!



#17 wagons

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:35 PM

My mains are 140 primary idle 60 secondary idle 55. Emulsion tubes are f35 I believe I could be wrong. 14° timing does the trick

#18 sparkyboy

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 08:51 PM

Wagons, you are in boulder? Are you the guy with the dark yellow/beige 83 GL that i met at the Safeway a couple of weeks ago?
Every car show i go to there is only one ea body Sube...if I happen to bring mine! Need some support to promote old school subes! Not all of us Subaru fans drive a slammed WRX! Haha! My GL gets more love at cars and coffee in Lafayette than my 77 Camaro!
I need to join that subie club and see who wants to drive over mosquito pass. You guys been? 4x4 only, but when i was a kid me and my dad drove my moms 2wd auto 84 gl over that no problem!
Happy wrenching

#19 wagons

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:08 PM

Hey sparkyboy I'm not in Boulder, winmag the OP is. Im in Prescott Arizona and our altitude is about the same as Boulder so just trying to help him out lol. I wish I had support for suby here too, lots of sti and WRX here. Funny how my friend owns a 450hp bug eye WRX and was at my house. A lady came up and asked if the Subaru was for sale, he got proud and told her no. I was shocked when she said "dang, I've been looking for a 4wd wagon and they are hard to find". My friend was speechless as he thinks his car is the s***

#20 winmag4582001

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:13 PM

Thank You!

I have jets from 120-160. I'll throw in a 140 tomorrow and see how it does.



#21 sparkyboy

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:03 AM

Haha! That's a funny story wagons!
You'll find the right setup through trial and error winmag, you will be able to remove and replace your carb with your eyes closed if you can't already do that lol.
I am lucky in that department, i had to rejet my Rochester monojet carb and got it right on the first try. Probably because there is only one jet, a simple lovely little carb that one.
Keep it up boys! Soon we'll be helping fools pull their trucks out of the snow

Edited by sparkyboy, 09 December 2017 - 03:04 AM.


#22 winmag4582001

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:25 PM

So here's where I ended up at today and it's running pretty dam good.

Timing is at 14 degrees

Primary Idle Jet is a 55

Primary main jet is a 140

Secondary main jet is a 135

On the top of the carb at the top of the emulsion tubes, Primary is a 210, secondary is a 200.






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