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98 2.5L Phase I crankshaft movement?


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Hi all, here's a good one for ya.

 

I've been fighting with my 98 OBW for about 6 months now. Engine is the infamous 2.5L Phase I. It started with the exhaust smelling like raw gas and engine codes saying 301, 302... misfires. Every shop I took it to said that I had burnt valves. Pulled the engine and had both heads reworked and pressure tested. Put it all back together and the same problem came back :( . Poor accel, smelly exhaust, and check engine lights. Took it to the dealer that I do a lot of business with and asked them to give me a truthful diag of the situation. They said to just trade it in because they couldn't figure it out either. Not an option. So, back into the garage to do some more investigation. Checked the valve lash. Not bad but a few need adjusting. Now the kicker... I was poking around with an pry bar (gingerly) to see if anything was loose and found that if I put it behind the crank pulley and gave it a slight push toward the back of the car the crank moved to the front of the car. Got a rough measurement and it looks like it is moving close to a 1/16th of an inch. I don't think this is good!

 

Question is, is there an end play measurement on the crank like the old VW's or is the bottom end done?

 

Thanks for the help.

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Normal reading for crankshaft end play is .0012" to .0045" with the service limit being .0098". If your end play is 1/16", that's about .0625" or close to 50 thousandths over. This kind of end play would probably affect the crank position pickup accuracy, which could cause all kinds of misfiring. It also will put a tremendous amount of strain on the pistons, rings and the rod bearings, as the entire reciprocating assembly is pushed out of alignment. I assume you have manual transmission to have such extreme wear. To be certain, I would make sure that I'm not flexing the rubber in the harmonic dampener. You can probably work the shaft forward with your bar, and then measure position to something immoble, then just push it all the way back and take a new measurement. I have seen this happen on mid 90 Mitsubishi engines, and the .050 to .060 thrust range seemed to be about where the crank position sensor started to rub and throw the ignition timing off.

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That's what I thought. Yes it is a manual trans. I can actually use my hands to move the pulley in and out. No flex in the pulley. Makes sense that the ECU would go nuts too. Is there any way to adjust the endplay or is it all done with the thrust bearing in the case? I pulled the crank pulley and it is starting to eat through the timing belt cover on the back side. New engine from CCR?

 

Thanks.

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It's done by the fit of the #5 main bearing into the case and would require a full teardown of the motor to repair. As it's a problem I have not heard discussed here, I suspect it is an uncommon failure on Subaru. That said, I would be concerned there might be some unusual problem with that individual motor, either abuse by a former owner, or a manufacturing defect that allowed oil pressure to run low. Out of curiosity, I would inspect the old oil pump for a failure of the back plate or o-ring that may have allowed oil to internally bypass, reducing engine supply. I personally would probably abandon that motor, even though I would normally suggest rebuilding. On the Mitsubishi engines I mentioned before the condition is popularly called crankwalk and is believed to be caused by piston oil squirters that bleed the bearing oil away from the bearings. Owners of those cars usually bypass their clutch switches and start in neutral with the clutch engaged, and avoid sitting at long red lights with the car in gear and the pedal down. Automatics can have this problem but it is much more common with Manual transmission. As to the CCR engine option, there has been a lot of discussion here, on the subject and many satisfied customers. I would read past posts and evaluate cost.

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It has 142,000 miles on it. Still a sound vehicle except for the engine problem and I own it with no more payments. I'll probably contact CCR and keep you all up to date on my progress. Like the car too much to dump it.

 

mike :)

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I have a 1999 Pase I 2.5 with 12K on it from a 1999. Paid $2500 for it and then didn't use it. Looking for $2200 + shipping.

 

If you could get the car to Colorado Springs, I'd Install it for $2500.

 

CCR is a great Shop, they've helped me many times! Just giving you anothe option.

 

Lmdew@hotmail.com

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I recall reading of a 'crankwalk' issue with the Phase I engine. AFAIK, it's not common, but Subaru did relocate the crank thrust bearing on the phase II engine. My understanding is that the thrust bearing is centrally located on the Phase I and it is at one end (rear?) on the Phase II. Just FYI.

 

Commuter

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Just an update. I ordered my new long block from CCR yesterday :) Should have it by the time I get back from a small trip. Very easy and friendly process ordering the engine from CCR. Looking forward to more time driving my OBW. Using the waiting time to pull out the sick engine. Didn't know that another possible reason for the movement could have been the wrong torque on the crank pulley bolt after a timing belt change. 125ftlbs not 90ftlbs as stated in some manuals. Go figure.

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Larry,

 

The original EJ22 FSMs had 90 ft. lbs. in them, IN ERROR. Since all the other manuals take their info from the factory copies, the error migrated.

 

A few years pass, Subaru updates theirs to 125 ft. lbs., but apparently the other manuals haven't followed suite. Since the amount of torque is the same for the EJ22 and EJ25 engines, I would guess that any books out there on the 2.5s still have the self-perpetuating error in them.

 

We used to get a LOT of EJ22 core engines in that had the crank pulley wobbled out due to a recent timing belt change and improper torque on the pulley bolt. Initially, Rick took one look at that spec and realized from years and years of experience that 90 lbs. just wasn't enough. He's always made sure ours are torqued to at least 125.

 

Happy 4th to Everyone!

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

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  • 2 weeks later...

Got my new long block on Monday! Woo Hoo! Looks perdy too. Thanks CCRINC. Currently pulling out the old engine and getting the fly-wheel surfaced. A few more days and back on the road (fingers crossed). I'll remember the 125 torque spec too.

 

mike

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Oops, next questions. Best way to "burp" the cooling system? Should I do the following as suggested or is there another way? I searched the forum didn't come up with a procedure. Maybe wrong search keywords.

 

 

------clip--------

It's essential that the 2.5 liter coolant crossover tube atop the engine be drilled and tapped. This allows user to add a small tube from there to the coolant reservoir. Any air inside the engine block then automatically purges. Proof of effective purging is that I can now drain all the coolant from the entire sys, then refill. Every drop can be refilled without hesitation. Before adding this air purge, I would end up with a few cups of fluid that I could not get back in to the system. Also, I now can't get the engine to gurgle after a hot shut down.

------clip--------

 

thanks

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The way I refill the cooling system is to put about a gallon of mix in the radiator, then pull the top hose off the radiator and pour mix down the hose into the engine. it goes to the tube that connects to both heads and fills each side pretty well. once the hose is about full to the top, i reconnect it to the radiator and fill the radiator to the top with mix. The engine is now near 100% full, and can safely be run to get the thermostat to open. There is a small screw plug on top of the radiator near the upper hose that is intended for allowing air out of the system. Once the block is reliably filled, it's like getting the last little bit of air out of most any other type of car.

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  • 2 weeks later...
:grin::D Major grin factor this past weekend. 98 OBW is back on the road. The new CCRINC long block is purring like a kitten. Sounds and runs like the car is brand new! Looking for another 140,000 miles or more. Was a pleasent surprise to have the oil filter and new plugs already installed in the new bottom end. Thanks CCRINC you're great and 1stsubaruparts for the prompt service. Except for having to knock out the old alinment pin from the trans (couldn't figure out why the two wouldn't fit together) everything went as smooth as silk.
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