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Loyale wagon Rear Axle Kapoof!


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23 replies to this topic

#1 mickytrus

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 09:07 PM

     It is certainly a bloody mess under there

 

Rear axle broke at the outer CV joint.

 

The wheel is sorta flipped out at the top......

 

 Maybe the rear flex line for the brake is snapped

 

Though, from what I am being told(As I was not the driver)

 

brakes seemed ok.

 

      Anyway,

 

                  I have ripped these cars apart so many times......

I have yet to have a rear axle go bad........(well, until now .....)

I have done rear bearings.....(with great success)

 

    I do have lots of spare parts and (spare cars)

 

So just wondering what some may choose to do in this situation.....

 

  If I use an axle from the grave yard, I have to get it out of a car...

It is not like it is laying on a shelf .....

 

  So ,    wondering if I should just grab everything.......

 

 everything  meaning   axle , hub strut.....

 

 

or

 

Is there a way to get the axle out without having to loosen the swing arm(hub and bearing assembly/ arm????

 

Thanks, Micky....

 

    Oh yeah,  My Loyale's are getting "Long in the Tooth"  the one I will be working on with the bad rear axle is 290K.

    And was going strong..... wanting to get it to 300K.....



#2 DaveT

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:20 PM

When I did rear bearings, not long ago, I found the drive shaft would not come off without removing or mostly removing the 2 arm mounting bolts and the shock.  Maybe loosening them and disconnecting the shock would work.



#3 Gloyale

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:02 PM

If the wheel is leaning on top you probably broke the trailing arm mount.



#4 mickytrus

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 10:44 PM

Aye! thanks G....

 

    Yeah, upon further inspection today(when I tried to get it into the garage....)

 

    The Kapoof!   is  a toasted swing arm........    looks like the axle shaft

was its victim.................  So, I will go to the graveyard and

Grab the the whole Schbang......

I tried to back the vehicle up, I was hoping to get it into the shop garage....

Unfortunately, I could only pull the car in the forward direction......(after jacking it up and positioning the wheel to be more vertical)

So I pulled it into the other garage.....

Geeze.... I would have never thought one of these would "just break".........   I will fill you's in on the gory details....

After tear down....

 

Micky



#5 DaveT

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 11:48 PM

yikes!



#6 idosubaru

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:25 AM

Good grief. Is it rusted? Previous accident?

the axles aren’t structural for the suspension. you can convert them to FWD or RWD, just stuff the hub with the cv end only but no axle. Meaning - the axle couldn’t cause the tire to move on it’s own. Unless it flopped at high speed and did some crazy down there. But that seems unlikely.

Edited by idosubaru, 20 November 2017 - 09:27 AM.


#7 mickytrus

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:27 PM

Yeah,  I think the swing arm  rotted out from the inside out......(I rust treat and paint like with the onset of every winter season)

I am going to break it down today... It is in the garage....

   Initially, when I looked under ,,,,,,     the CV joint was all broke apart grease slung  everywhere....

but yeah, It behaves like a broken limb..... the wheel/hub must be hanging on by like one strip of metal



#8 mickytrus

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:54 PM

So I managed to dismantle the mess....

 

Came apart like butter.......  I saw there was  anti-seize up on the front swing arm mount bolt.....

"I mustah been here before"

 

    Yeah, Memory escaped me but, I swapped out this swing arm, I think about at least

100k ago..........  That explains it.....   The swing arm has probably about 400k on it.....

I remember the bearing going bad......   so I swapped it out with a swing arm that had

a new bearing in it... Stuff doesn't last forever... This is the proof of that!!!....

In the salty Northeast..... where they salt the roads (now they are spraying the salt on them before suspected storms)

 

Driver's side swing arm looks great.... Gives me piece of mind.......

 

   To  go ahead with swapping out another one........   Yeah, the axle was a victim of this swing arm atrocity......

 

Micky

Attached Files



#9 idosubaru

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:37 PM

Haha “been here before”! Haha love that feeling.

That was rust induced? Was it visibly rusted when it was installed?

#10 mickytrus

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 04:54 PM

Naah that stuff was beautiful....

 

But, I must say everything is rust here..... If it is not rust then it is mold.........

 

I just got the the car back together........  Sadly, I had to buy a new axle.........

 

AXLEsssss    were not going to come out of the graveyard in one piece....  I was even torching them up with heat...( to much meat)

 

And I had to hire the muscle of the "machine shop" to  yank a growlie bearing out of the passenger side swing arm that

I scavenged from "The Jackson Ho!"(A recent Lawn ornament) and then a close to new bearing from a driveside swing arm out of "Trixie"(Spirit - Parts pile)

 

So  not the end of the world(perhaps, "A new lease on life for 'Ho-tel' "  I got 'Ho-tel'  all together but but but,,,,,,

 

   The double spline shaft..........  must not be pressed at the correct location...(machine shop--blame them).....(which I don't understand - when I put the shaft on.... I sorta looked ok)

ANYWAY, MY CURRENT DILEMMA....

                                                                I torqued the axle to 200 FT LBS... I couldn't get the the cotter pin in...

                                                     Initially, thought I over shot my destination......

                                    IN SHORT::::::::::     The only way to get the cotter pin in was....

                                                       TO NOT USE THE CRUSH WASHER>>>>

                     Pretty damn annoying... I must say..............    SO WHAT DO YOU THINK I SHOULD DO.....?????

                                            Driving around with no crush washer on back pass axle.......  I will check it every now and then.........(All the even miles)

 

 

THanks, MIcky



#11 mickytrus

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:03 PM

I spend alot of munnie and time on

 

Preventative  rust stufff........   That is the only reason this car survives to this day.....

 

 I anti-sieze  practically everything............  even clips......  If I can't coat it......  I throw anti-sieze on it...........

 

     I am really digging   "cavity waxes" these days......  "they boldly go where others have not gone before"  ----



#12 DaveT

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:52 PM

Put the crush washer in. 200ftlbs sounds high. Without double checking the fsm, 150 is closer to normal,and there is no.problem turning the nut a bit more to get the cotter pin in.

Notice that there are 2 holes, 90 degrees apart on the axle. The nut has 6 flats. Only a small fraction of a turn needed to get one or the other of the 2 axle holes to line up with the notches.

#13 mickytrus

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:53 PM

it's like the shaft is 5/16" in....  No dice on lining up the holes with the axle nut.

 

and 200 foot pounds is not sucking the shaft out towards the nut.

 

  So I resulted in not putting the crush washer on....(not really a solution)

 

I drove it a bunch maybe fifty miles... checked it today... it is still the same....

 

I even removed the nut put a new cotter pin in it.........today........

 

Micky



#14 DaveT

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:05 PM

Something must not be correct. ... it should take less than 150 to get it pulled into place.

#15 czny

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:55 PM

trailing arm & stub axle:

https://www.subarupa...diagram=7525380

 

No spacers or slingers to put in wrong order - so maybe mach shop put a spacer in that doesn't belong there(???)



#16 mickytrus

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:39 PM

Right,,,, It should sucked in towards the hex nut when tightened(I would think???)

 

So, if you could enlighten me on this here  (see below)...

 

     The collar(bearing retainer nut?) on the inside of swing arm(where you would use special tool#(xxxxx) but, a punch be could be used instead.....   (possibly by shade tree mechs)

 

     After the collar has been removed, then,,, and only in the direction towards where the collar threads in, is the only way to get the bearing out?

     

    (the way the bearing is purchased is on piece, it is pressed in as one piece --- it is a self contained unit of two independant tapered roller bearing  it can't be separated)

 

             If someone can explain the process of bearing removal and installation it would be appreciated...

                                      My concern is.... where the stop is for the bearing.....



#17 mickytrus

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:44 PM

I did drop off two swing arms to the machine shop....

 

and

 

   A driverside swing arm was the location of the donor axle bearing.....        for the passenger side(to be used/installed) swing arm...

 

too many (duplicate) parts on the tool bench top at once????



#18 DaveT

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:50 PM

Yes, the retaining nut that requires a special tool is the only way to get the bearing out.

 

The outer races are one piece of steel.  The inners are 2 separate races and cages with rollers.

 

The pictures and description on my website are how I did it.

Maybe something will help on my site:

 

 

http://www.dynahoeda...eelbearing.html



#19 Gloyale

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 10:04 AM

    (the way the bearing is purchased is on piece, it is pressed in as one piece --- it is a self contained unit of two independant tapered roller bearing  it can't be separated)

 

is definately does come apart and should be repacked with grease before install.

 

IDK where this myth that wheel bearings come pre greased comes from.  If it pressed in, it needs grease.  Bolt in bearings like the newer style are "sealed" and do not.

 

I am gonna say that the shop did not press the outer race deep enough into the housing.



#20 DaveT

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:04 AM

Gloyale could be on to something there.

#21 czny

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:06 AM

is definately does come apart and should be repacked with grease before install.

 

IDK where this myth that wheel bearings come pre greased comes from.  If it pressed in, it needs grease.  Bolt in bearings like the newer style are "sealed" and do not.

 

I am gonna say that the shop did not press the outer race deep enough into the housing.

IIRC there were 2 designs of rear roller brg for 4wd Subies. One 3 piece: outer race; 2 inner cones with inner race touching when assembled. Other was 4 piece(?) with spacer in between brg cones. 

 

If mach shop didn't clean trailing arm housing thoroughly that brg might not be seated fully in. Not likely but CV end of stub axle has a seal washer that goes on before the CV. Inside diameter of that washer is smaller than the brg journals of the stub axle so unless mach shop used a HD press to force it, not likely. 

 

Edit: if this has drum rear brakes, lip of drum might be dragging on backing plate if brg wasn't seated - or very close to it. If disc brk, rotor wouldn't be centered in caliper pad bracket.


Edited by czny, 27 November 2017 - 11:10 AM.


#22 mickytrus

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 01:54 PM

It has drum brakes...

 

   I believe it is three piece...  two bearings one outer race...

 

One thing is that  I gave then machine shop   2 swing arms.....

 

  My thoughts are that,,,,,, they  didn't  even press out the outer race. just left it in there....

 

The reason I say this... is because when I actually got the swing arms back........  the  Swing arm that  I  was not using ,(the donor),,,,, still had the outer race in it....

  Hence, they just popped out the outer bearing and spined stubbed shaft and put it in the desired(to be used) swing arm.

 

                         With this in mind....(During disassembly)

                                                        I had a really tough time getting the drum off.......  I blunted the end of the splined stubbed shaft with a sledge hammer(literally distorted its shape)

 

                           I am thinking all the hammering I did(to get the drum off)..... possibly moved the bearing assembly unit inward(particularily the outer race)

 

                         To me this sounds like the explanation of this situation....

 

 

 

                                        Is this possible?  which side does the out race press in from??  (is it the inside(axle shaft side of swing arm?)

 

                                        So this misalignment???? how will this play into the life of things?(meaning the life of this bearing???

                                         

                                                 Is the outer bearing seated properly in it's outer race(being that the outer race is apprx. 1/4" in deeper?????

 

Thanks, Micky



#23 Gloyale

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 02:12 PM

  My thoughts are that,,,,,, they  didn't  even press out the outer race. just left it in there....

 

The reason I say this... is because when I actually got the swing arms back........  the  Swing arm that  I  was not using ,(the donor),,,,, still had the outer race in it....

 

Ah that is F*&%ed up!

 

Still doesn't explain why the stub won't protrude far enough to get the cotter pin in.

 

I would spend the $ on a new bearing and have that pressed in......Somewhere else.



#24 DaveT

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 02:16 PM

The outer race should be pressed in until it hits a stop. The special nut should keep it from moving towards the diff.

If that out race that is in there now had hammering like that going on during dissasebly, I would not trust it to last long.

Never hammer on bearing components that you intend to use.

As much as it sucks, I don't know any way to figure out what's wrong short of dissasembly so that parts can be measured, checked, compared.




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