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Width of PS rack?

steering rack power fluid power steering steering rack STI

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23 replies to this topic

#1 carfreak85

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:24 PM

Does anyone know the overall width of an EA82 power steering rack WITHOUT tie rod ends installed?



#2 jono

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:50 AM

I may be able to help if you can be more specific. Rack ends often called inner tie rod.

You want them in the measure or where the rack itself ends and inners screw to

#3 carfreak85

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:55 AM

Yes, overall rack width NOT INCLUDING tie rod ends.  Thanks!



#4 jono

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:45 PM

yeah, I saw not including tie rods before you capitalised and under lined it but like i said some people refer to the inner tie rods as rack ends, unknown if that include you !

 

The actual rack shaft length of my PS unit from EA82 is 605mm and has female thread end so EA81 inner tie rods / rack ends wont just thread up to them by mistake on the assembly line as they made EA81 and EA82 same years, dunno if at same plant.

 

You owe me some hand cleaner for that one :)



#5 carfreak85

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:40 AM

Hahaha, sorry, just wanted to be clear!  It's amazing how easily someone's words or intent can be mistaken when you're reading text.

 

605 mm, great!  Apparently the EJ racks are too wide and throw off the steering geometry on an EA when installed.  My mission is to find a quicker rack that could be retrofitted to an EA chassis.



#6 idosubaru

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:29 PM

605 mm, great!  Apparently the EJ racks are too wide and throw off the steering geometry on an EA when installed.  .

 

I'd love to see a solution to this as well.

 

I'm wondering if the EJ inner tie rods are shortened such that Rack+inner tie rod width is identical to the stock EA rack+inner tie rod width - shouldn't that then make them identical in terms of steering response?

 

Then you just have to shorten the inner tie rods...?



#7 Numbchux

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:04 PM

I'd love to see a solution to this as well.

 

I'm wondering if the EJ inner tie rods are shortened such that Rack+inner tie rod width is identical to the stock EA rack+inner tie rod width - shouldn't that then make them identical in terms of steering response?

 

Then you just have to shorten the inner tie rods...?

 

Shortening the steering linkage will effect how the toe changes through the suspension travel. That's what we're talking about, shortened rods has been done but you end up with bump steer.



#8 idosubaru

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:10 PM

Shortening the steering linkage will effect how the toe changes through the suspension travel. That's what we're talking about, shortened rods has been done but you end up with bump steer.

 

why is that?  i'm having a hard time picturing it. 

seems like the rack just pushes the tie rod in and out the same on both sides - i guess that's not the case?



#9 Numbchux

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:38 PM

why is that?  i'm having a hard time picturing it. 

seems like the rack just pushes the tie rod in and out the same on both sides - i guess that's not the case?

 

On flat ground, yes.

 

But as the suspension travels, the control arm and steering link both move in an arc. If they're not the same length, they will not move in the same arc.

 

I did a quick google search and found this picture. It's a little oversimplified as it shows those arcs above horizontal, but a cars travel is completely below horizontal. And I would illustrate it with the 2 arcs overlapping at ride height....but the basic property is the same

 

mustang-bumpsteer-explained-21.png



#10 idosubaru

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:05 PM

Great, very cool. Thanks.

But crack that means we got no options!

#11 johnny555

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:46 AM

What about the XT4 rack? It does require fabricating a small bracket and rubber bushing but it's not difficult.


Edited by johnny555, 16 December 2017 - 05:48 AM.


#12 idosubaru

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:12 AM

What about the XT4 rack? It does require fabricating a small bracket and rubber bushing but it's not difficult.


Are they a significantly quicker ratio?
Theyre 30 years old as well.

Last year I had an XT6 rack leaking. Swapped in a used rack - it leaked - got another - it leaked.

Aftermaket rebuilds arent likely OEM quality but are a reasonable option.

#13 Gloyale

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:55 PM

What about the XT4 rack? It does require fabricating a small bracket and rubber bushing but it's not difficult.

 

Not really any different.  Maybe quicker ratio.  Just as hard to find a good one.

 

XT 4cyl is literally just an EA82 chassis with a fancy body.

 

 

I look for nice 2wd loyales in the wrecking yard.  They ussually have the best chance at being good non-leaking racks as they have not been abused offroading.

 

But they are all nearly 30 years old now too.



#14 Numbchux

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:24 AM

I used an XT rack in my Loyale. It was a direct swap, it was a quicker ratio, but only barely. IMHO not worth the work unless you have to replace the rack anyway.



#15 Torry33

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 01:54 PM

i converted my non power ea rack with a power ej rack and you have to mod it a little but mine works great!



#16 Gloyale

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 06:03 PM

i converted my non power ea rack with a power ej rack and you have to mod it a little but mine works great!

 

You think it's great.

 

But in reality, any time you turn or hit a bump your alignment is going wonky.

 

EJ rack is wider than EA82.  your tires are wearing faster than they need to and I can't imagine it cornering well with toe changing as you move through the turn.



#17 jono

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 06:42 AM

Torry can you detail the mods please and how many miles since you did it?

#18 idosubaru

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 07:53 AM

Does any of this change depending on:
1. which model?
2. if it has EA or EJ knuckles (are they offset differently)?
3. lifts

or is the track width difference all chassis - between strut towers?
why are EJ knuckles and axles usable when they're also from a wider track width vehicle?

i think i know the answers but wondering how you guys would answer.

i converted my non power ea rack with a power ej rack and you have to mod it a little but mine works great!

stock knuckles or have you swapped?

Edited by idosubaru, 22 December 2017 - 07:55 AM.


#19 carfreak85

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 11:04 AM

The problem, as stated above, is that the EJ rack is wider than an EA rack.  This pushes the inner tie rod pivot point out of alignment with the lower control arm's pivot point.  The problem with that is that when you drive over a bump, the tie rods and control arm don't travel in the same arc.  This difference in travel can introduce a small (or large) amount of steering input that the driver did not ask for, making the car feel darty and hard to trust on bumpy roads at speed.

 

Using EJ axles doesn't effect steering geometry.  The EJ knuckles don't move the ball joint or strut, so the only real change is the Ackerman angle, due to the relocated steering pickup on the EJ knuckle, relative to the same pickup on the EA knuckles. 


Edited by carfreak85, 22 December 2017 - 11:09 AM.


#20 Gloyale

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 01:07 PM

The problem, as stated above, is that the EJ rack is wider than an EA rack.  This pushes the inner tie rod pivot point out of alignment with the lower control arm's pivot point.  The problem with that is that when you drive over a bump, the tie rods and control arm don't travel in the same arc.  This difference in travel can introduce a small (or large) amount of steering input that the driver did not ask for, making the car feel darty and hard to trust on bumpy roads at speed.

 

 

This.

 

It's about the relative width of the Inner control arm pivot, and the rack.  

 

Small difference might not be super noticeable on smooth roads.....But tires will wear funky over time.

 

Did this mod once on an 86 EJ22 GL my buddy drove the car for about 2 years and always had handling issues, and weird tire wear.  Swapped out the rack to an EA82 and it is now fine.



#21 idosubaru

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 05:45 PM

This pushes the inner tie rod pivot point out of alignment with the lower control arm's pivot point.


thanks for putting up with those questions, that makes perfect sense and isolates (I think) the issue specifically.

#22 Torry33

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:36 AM

ok i have been running my ej power rack in my lifted gl for almost a year with no abnormal tire wear or handling.and we drive a 70 mph speed limit here in Montana.i changed the tie rod ends to ea ones and had to cut the little bracket off the ej rack that held the lines to move the rubber piece that clamps the rack in place.you need to be able to slide it over a bit to make it fit.



#23 Torry33

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:59 AM

im not an expert or am claiming this is the right or best way of doing this.i just did it because it was all i had to work with at the time and it has been working for me just fine.i have kids and am concerned with safety.if i noticed any odd hadling i wouldnt have been driving this for long like.maybe its so small i dont really noyice it,i dont know.but to me it does drive very good.



#24 Numbchux

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 10:03 AM

When using EJ axles, the inner joints are more compressed than on an EJ car. Some people have reported that they bottom out.

 

Technically using EJ knuckles shortens the tie rod assembly slightly, it's a negligible change when driving straight, but that small change relative to the ball joint really improves the ackermann angle (while turning, the inside wheel turns sharper than the outside).







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