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4eat in an ea81 body, how much lift?


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22 replies to this topic

#1 86hatchback

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:32 PM

I searched quite a bit and could never find a solid answer, has anyone done this? I’d prefer not to hammer the wee out of the body and I plan on lifting a little(2”) anyways, just curious how tight we are talking.

Thanks,
Matt

#2 ferp420

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 02:27 PM

I would guess you would need around 8" of lift to get the 4eat and a ej in a brat with out hammering and cutting the body maybe 6" with some sledge work 2" i think would need some cutting and rebuilding but i havent had a ea81 in 20 years so im just guessing

#3 86hatchback

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:28 AM

Ok good to know thanks for the taking a shot at it.

Edited by 86hatchback, 19 January 2018 - 12:28 AM.


#4 Gloyale

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 01:53 PM

I would guess you would need around 8" of lift to get the 4eat and a ej in a brat with out hammering and cutting the body maybe 6" with some sledge work 2" i think would need some cutting and rebuilding but i havent had a ea81 in 20 years so im just guessing

 

What????

 

I can't say for sure.  But the 4eats isn't THAT much larger.  2-3" subframe drop should clear it just fine.



#5 86hatchback

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:40 PM

Oh ok cool that’s a little more what I’m hoping for, really didn’t want to have to cut the tunnel up.

#6 ferp420

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:51 PM

My 4eat looks huge next to my ea82 5mt as for the ea81 its been 20 years since i had one i just know there smaller than a ea82 how much room is there for a ej in the brat with out cutting or hammering i figure the engine needs more.room than the trans thats why i sead 8" but 5 would probably work but back to its been 20 years since ive even worked on a ea81 and i cant remeber what engines fit and what ones need clearencing seeing as how 5he op dident give any engine info im just asuming its the one that wont fit and would then need to be mounted under th3 stock frame rails hence needing alot of lift

#7 86BRATMAN

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:29 AM

I have an ej and manual awd trans in my ea81 hardtop with no drivetrain drop. Two inches would be plenty to get a 4eat to fit in the tunnel.

Edited by 86BRATMAN, 21 January 2018 - 12:30 AM.


#8 86hatchback

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:41 AM

Perfect

#9 Gloyale

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 06:07 PM

My 4eat looks huge next to my ea82 5mt as for the ea81 its been 20 years since i had one i just know there smaller than a ea82 how much room is there for a ej in the brat with out cutting or hammering i figure the engine needs more.room than the trans thats why i sead 8" but 5 would probably work but back to its been 20 years since ive even worked on a ea81 and i cant remeber what engines fit and what ones need clearencing seeing as how 5he op dident give any engine info im just asuming its the one that wont fit and would then need to be mounted under th3 stock frame rails hence needing alot of lift

 

You are thinking of EA71 first gen vehichles.

 

EA81 cars will fit EJ22 or EJ25D without notching frame.



#10 86BRATMAN

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:06 PM

Dohc engines into the ea81 chassis do need a bit of massaging to give clearance around the timing covers. Couple minutes with a hammer and you're good to go.

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:03 PM

Dohc engines into the ea81 chassis do need a bit of massaging to give clearance around the timing covers. Couple minutes with a hammer and you're good to go.

 

Saw a Brat with an STI EJ20 in it  at a WCSS a few years back.  Didn't have any mods to the frame rail.  Tight, but no cutting or bashing done.



#12 86BRATMAN

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:10 PM

Something had to have been modified, I ran an ej207 in mine. First fitting of the engine had the timing covers literally touching both frame rails.

#13 el_freddo

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:04 AM

Notch the cam covers, done. Yes a small gap each side of the engine for crap to get in but most EJ20 turbo/DOHCs don't see a lot of offroad action.

Cheers

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#14 bratman18

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:40 AM

I'm more interested in how you make the 4eat electronics work. I want to run a 4eat in my lifted and ej swapped Loyale, but wiring is the only thing holding me back from doing it.

#15 86BRATMAN

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:37 AM

You'd just leave the tcu and transmission wiring intact in the donor harness. Would make the strip down take a bit longer, but not much more difficult.

#16 bratman18

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:37 AM

You'd just leave the tcu and transmission wiring intact in the donor harness. Would make the strip down take a bit longer, but not much more difficult.


My car already has an ej swap, so I would need to get another donor harness and do it all over again, I assume?

#17 86BRATMAN

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 10:39 AM

That would be the easiest way to do it. Adding in the tcu wiring would require tearing down another harness anyway.

#18 Gloyale

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 02:05 PM

The TCU harness can be thinned out just like an ECU.

 

The on;y issue is you must match the TCU type to the ECU type (i.e. OBD i or 2, and Proper Phase)

 

I assume Phase i here, but yeah obd i or II is key as the TPS signal will be shared between teh 2.  Other than that the entire TCU setup is standalone, and pretty easy to thin as there is only the 2 plugs to the trans unlike engine which has tons of connectors.

 

PM me if you want to talk about getting one thinned down for yer car.  



#19 bratman18

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:47 AM

The TCU harness can be thinned out just like an ECU.
 
The on;y issue is you must match the TCU type to the ECU type (i.e. OBD i or 2, and Proper Phase)
 
I assume Phase i here, but yeah obd i or II is key as the TPS signal will be shared between teh 2.  Other than that the entire TCU setup is standalone, and pretty easy to thin as there is only the 2 plugs to the trans unlike engine which has tons of connectors.
 
PM me if you want to talk about getting one thinned down for yer car.  

So in your opinion, could the transmission harness be easily added to an existing ej swap harness? Could it just be tapped into the existing harness and have it work?

#20 86BRATMAN

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 07:55 AM

There is more than just tps signal shared between the ecu and tcu, even on phase 1 cars. You have maf, engine rpm, torque cut, vss, tps signal and tps power supply, control system ground, sensor ground, and then the diagnostic wiring that gets tied together for the obd and/or ssm port.

#21 Numbchux

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:23 AM

So in your opinion, could the transmission harness be easily added to an existing ej swap harness? Could it just be tapped into the existing harness and have it work?

 

FAR easier to start with an auto trans harness, and strip it to keep engine and trans controls.

 

 

Theoretically, the Subaru internals are the same as the Nissan RE4R01A transmission, which should mean that this rail shifter should work, but I don't think it's been done:

http://www.radesigns...controller.html



#22 Gloyale

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:39 AM

FAR easier to start with an auto trans harness, and strip it to keep engine and trans controls.

 

 

Theoretically, the Subaru internals are the same as the Nissan RE4R01A transmission, which should mean that this rail shifter should work, but I don't think it's been done:

http://www.radesigns...controller.html

 

Yeah, you would think but actually it ends up being a nightmare to keep them merged.  It ends up being a nightmare to cleanly install.

 

Easier in my opinion to set up as seperate harness, and then tie in the few items that need to be shared.

 

I have several full TCU wire looms sitting around seperate from the Engine looms.

 

 

There is more than just tps signal shared between the ecu and tcu, even on phase 1 cars. You have maf, engine rpm, torque cut, vss, tps signal and tps power supply, control system ground, sensor ground, and then the diagnostic wiring that gets tied together for the obd and/or ssm port.

 

 

What I meant is there is only TPS signal that has to be specific to the type of ECU you use.  You can't use a 92 TCU with a 96 ECU......the TPS signals won't match.  90-94 ECU must use 90-94 TCU but could actually run any 90-98 trans.

 

there is no MAF signal to any TCU of OBD 1 or pre 99 OBD II cars.  Torque cut signal wire from TCU back to ECU isn't really required, it just helps the ECU adjust it's map when Torque converter lock up is cut, but it will work fine without.  Either way....it's only one more wire.

 

RPM and VSS get tapped in same place as the EJ swap ECU would tap in.  Compatible with any pre 98 EJ or EA signals from vss and tach.

 

Of course, yes you would need to supply the loom with a power supply and a ground, but there is nothing special about it, doesn't need to be "merged" or "match" the ECU setup.  If stripped right, all TCU grounds will happen in the trans at it's main internal ground.

 

No need to setup the diag connector unless you have a SSM lying around ;).  Subaru OBD II in the early years did not allow TCU access through OBD port.

 

 

So in your opinion, could the transmission harness be easily added to an existing ej swap harness? Could it just be tapped into the existing harness and have it work?

 

 

Yes.

 

And it would be far more efficient to do it that way than to undo an existing swap, strip down an entire new donor harness and reinstall it all.  EJ swaps are alot of work to redo for no reason.

 

Yeah, that would be silly to go that route rather than simply splicing in a few wires.  95% of the trans wiring is self contained in it's own harness already.

 

Just gotta match your ECU to TCU type.



#23 86BRATMAN

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 01:00 PM

The 97 legacy fsm shows maf signal at tcu plug B54 pin 9.




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