YOWZA Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 QUACK I've been posting in the wrong section. I'll give it another go here. (darn newbies) I've been searching and googling without any help. I took off my timing belt before lining up the marks. (yes, I'm a rookie) Water pump is in and now comes the hard part. (i think) I turned the crankshaft so the mark is lined up. The intake and exhaust pulleys on the drivers side move but I can't line them because of the pressure. The intake on the passenger side is stuck and the exhaust is free wheeling. Should I move the crank around to help with this movement OR should I just apply more pressure on the pulleys? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Didn’t you ask on another forum or thread? It’s easy- Line up the crank - then line up the cam pulleys to their marks. Install belt, check marks. Done. They’ll be under pressure and hit “lobes” of high spots from the cams and valve springs. Totally normal - keep turning. If it slips - do it again. If it hits a hard stop then make sure the crank is properly lined up and the valves aren’t hitting each other. These are interference engines so the valves can hit something / either pistons or valves I forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Yes. I was in the Meet and Greet department. That's great! I will be back at it tomorrow. Your reply has given me some confidence. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 What mark are you using on the crank gear? Prayerfully the mark that is embossed on the oil pump that has the sensor attached. The crank key way should then be at 6 o'clock. If you get to this point the pistons are halfway down and will offer no interference with the valves. At this point the passenger side will spin freely, but the driver side will load up as you approach the timing mark. It will sit unless bumped. You can use clothes pins or clamps to hold the belt in place. The lower idler goes on last, requiring some upward pressure as you catch the threads. If the cam pulleys are hitting a stop, STOP. Do not force. You can rotate the crank a little at a time, then the cam pulleys , alternating until they are basically free wheeling. Then you can align as stated. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Thanks for the comments. I've lined up the crank, as in the photo. The pulleys on the passenger side are lined up. However,the 2 on the drivers side, I've come to a spot where both pulleys are spring loaded. The top (clockwise) and the bottom (counter clockwise) I guess there will be a point where they will spring loose the farther I go? I have turned the crank 1 full revolution and it didn't change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) The drivers side cam, at least the top one if not both, are loaded when properly lined up. So yes you carefully rotate it and leave it under tension. It may slip and quickly flail past the mark. Happens all the time , just rotate it back, no big deal. Line it up. Line it up. Line it up. I already told you do not touch the crank. It’s pointless. Edited March 10, 2018 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Got it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) The drivers side cam, at least the top one if not both, are loaded when properly lined up. So yes you carefully rotate it and leave it under tension. It may slip and quickly flail past the mark. Happens all the time , just rotate it back, no big deal. Line it up. Line it up. Line it up. I already told you do not touch the crank. It’s pointless. To correct any possible misunderstanding. If it rolls over and shoots past the mark, DO NOT TURN it backwards. Just clockwise for the intake and counter for the exhaust until they line up again. Fractions of an inch is ok. O. Edited March 10, 2018 by ocei77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 DO NOT TURN it backwards. O. why not? Not that I’m recmending otherwise but just being specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Just repeating the wisdom of others far wiser than I. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 why not? Not that I’m recmending otherwise but just being specific. turning the crank backwards can blow out the one way valve in the oil fitler, and possibly damage the bypass valve in the oil pump. It is OK to rotate the Cams either direction. I use a box end wrench on the drivers side cams to have leverage to hold them in place if they are trying to spin from the spring force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Finally back at it! I'm putting the new pulleys on and want to make sure the timing belt tensioner is in the correct position. This tensioner looks different than the ones I've been viewing on line. Looks like most of them are 1 piece. I can't remember what it looked like when I took it off. ( should of taken pix) I guess the tensioner, after the pin is pulled, will hit against the bracket behind the pulley. Does this all sound right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 When installed before tightening the two bolts, the tensioner should be forced to the left and held there by a screwdriver, then tightened. There will be a gap until the pin is pulled. You should give it a few seconds to fully extend, then turn the crank by hand two complete revs to make sure all is well and double check the timing marks are still aligned. The belt marks will not be, but the crank and cam marks should, though the driver side may be a 1/2 or full tooth off, which is ok. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 what he said - push the tensioner all the way to the left before tightening the bolts down, the holes are slotted. that's the older style tensioner which is more reliable than the newer one piece tensioners. the newer ones should be replaced every time, those older ones you can just leave them. crossover years and engine swaps notwithstanding - 96 and earlier are the old style tensioner like in your picture. 97+ are newer style tensioners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 Thanks, I was wondering about those slotted holes. Also, after the pulleys are torqued on, can you spin them? Mine turn freely, but don't keep spinning. Should I have oiled these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Thanks, I was wondering about those slotted holes. Also, after the pulleys are torqued on, can you spin them? Mine turn freely, but don't keep spinning. Should I have oiled these? No oil but generally the common thought is to replace them at TB change with non Chinese made idlers (KOYO/NTN, etc), especially the cogged one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1. The pulleys should be relaced with aisin Subaru or Japanese brand. 2. “Spin freely” is relative term - a new pulley doesn’t spin freely because it has new functional grease in it. Old pulleys will spin easily but that’s because they’re too low on grease internally. Grease is the *only* failure mode of the pulleys so what you’re trying to gauge is how much grease is in there. On older subarus with unavailable pulleys I’ll regrease the pulleys with a needle gun since you can’t buy them. They’ll last indefinitely doing that. It’s just not worth it to most people to do that since new pulleys are cheap and you can damage the face seals trying to slide a needle fitting under there. I’m generally checking them at some point and they’re a 60,000 mike timing belt, not 100,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 Looks like I'm using "Made in China" product from Gates. Any precautions I should be looking at? I guess this cheap product won't last as long as the Japanese made product. Next time I'll know better. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Looks like I'm using "Made in China" product from Gates. Any precautions I should be looking at? I guess this cheap product won't last as long as the Japanese made product. Next time I'll know better. Thanks. Don't make your next timing belt service at 105k. Maybe 50k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 No oil but generally the common thought is to replace them at TB change with non Chinese made idlers (KOYO/NTN, etc), especially the cogged one I personally don't replace the tensioner or it's roller unless there is a sign of damage. I do replace all 3 other idlers. In my experience the large rollers of the tensioner are more robust, and rotate at an effectively slower rpm than the 3 smaller idlers. I've only ever seen 1 seized tensioner roller. it was the new style, and was actually a genuine NTN replacement but failed after about 20k miles. Defects do sometimes happen. Ironically the original probably would not have failed if they had left it alone. (this was a job done at another local shop, not by me) I am always very careful to compress the tensioner VERY slowly. I put it in a vise and move the handle in tiny increments, taking several minutes to fully compress the tensioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 How exact should the 2 marks (6 o'clock and 12) be lined up? All the other marks are right on and the correct amount of teeth between cams and pulleys. However, these marks are slightly off on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Pix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 It’s probably fine. Line those marks up and then see how far the others are off. It’ll all settle a few degrees once the tensioner is pulled and engine rotated so where you set it isn’t precisely where it has to end. It just has to be within the window of “one tooth” I’ve never seen a failed tensioner pulley either. I have seen slapping tensioners but only making noise not actually causing any damage or issue with the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Slapping tensioner's can cause the belt to jump teeth on the crank or cam wheels. Jump enough = trouble. To the OP: once you've pulled the pin on the tensioner, rotate the crank a few times, realign the crank marks and check the cam wheel marks to see if everything is within spec. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOWZA Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Looked like all marks and tooth count were correct...pulled pin...looks like it could be off a tooth on the bottom cam drivers side. Is there a way to fix this without taking the belt off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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