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Metal scraping sound near pulleys

Pulley Bearing Scraping

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41 replies to this topic

#1 Tony Cortado

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:32 PM

Hey folks. Got a new sound among all the old ones (lifter tick, low idle, etc.). I think a pulley bearing is going out, but I've never experienced it before. Would you have a listen to the YouTube post and let me know what you think? Is there a way to determine which pulley it is without taking the belts off?

https://youtu.be/4PO_iZtn8Vc

Thanks!

Edited by Tony Cortado, 16 March 2018 - 03:34 PM.


#2 DaveT

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:53 PM

You can try both a tube as a stethoscope and a big screw driver as a probe.

This requires careful planning of position etc. Hold 1 end of tube (or screwdriver ) to ear, other near (or touch non moving parts).

This may help locate the noise. Otherwise, if it's that bad, take them off, you have to to fix it anyway, and it should be obvious which bearings are bad.

This includes timing belt idlers, if your engine has them.

#3 idosubaru

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:31 PM

stethoscope

 

remove belts to rule out various components

 

remove belt and spin each pulley - what's it feel like? 



#4 Dee2

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:51 PM

Yep, sounds like a bearing squeeking.  If one of the timing belt idlers or tensioners is going out, probably time to change them all.  



#5 jono

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:02 AM

is the crank pulley on firmly? I just bought an EA82 and found previous fix of spring roll pin, just one, had broken in two places. My fix is to get crank pulley off, use spare timing belt drive cog as a drill guide on the back of the pulley and drill 5mm holes 180 degres apart and tap in a pair of 30mm long spring roll pins, some goop on bolt threads and do it up



#6 DaveT

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 06:49 PM

That squeak is a bearing dying.  

 

I had a recent similar experience - When I started the car after work, which means it's around freezing, I heard a metallic squeal from under the hood.  It would fade away after 10 or so seconds.  Wouldn't do it if warm.

Finally had time to look at it today.  The water pump front bearing looks like the culprit - the oil seal is destroyed, and I can see the cage.


Won't be 100% sure until I take the car to work on a cold day again.  But the V belt idler was good, and the timing belt idlers don't look shot.  I know those were redone when I put the engine in a couple years ago.  Apparently, the water pump I didn't change for some reason.



#7 Tony Cortado

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 10:50 PM

Funny.  The sound stopped before I had a chance to find the location.  It is getting warmer here, so maybe the grease works smoother on those bearings in this weather.  Will keep an ear out for now, and take the belts off in a day or three to check each pulley individually.  Hopefully it's not a timing belt pulley, I don't feel like learning how to change those. :)


Edited by Tony Cortado, 18 March 2018 - 10:51 PM.


#8 Tony Cortado

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 07:22 PM

Alright, it's time.  I opened up the outer belt covers as best as I could without removing anything else, and found the driver's side timing belt frayed to heck.  The passenger side is totally fine.  It's time to replace the pulleys/tensioners and both belts.  I am using a Haynes Manual and this forum to get me through.  This doesn't look like a difficult job, nor terribly time consuming, but the very first step in the manual (after disconnecting the battery), says to "Turn the crankshaft until the center of the three valve timing marks on the flywheel is aligned with the timing pointer (see illustration)."  I am a total amateur to this --- how do I turn the freakin crankshaft?

 

29597928_10100285364545189_787055757021329664680_10100285364560159_8894931777435

 

 

 



#9 DaveT

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 07:30 PM

To turn the engine, use a 22mm [iirc] Socket on the bolt on the crank shaft pulley.  Turn clockwise.



#10 Tony Cortado

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 07:31 PM

Thanks DaveT! Should I take the two outer belts off first, or will they turn with it?  Once the mark on the flywheel is lined up according to the manual, the cam shafts, should be in these positions before I put the belts on... is that right?

 

2010-07-15_111036_lseries_tb1.jpg


Edited by Tony Cortado, 25 March 2018 - 07:36 PM.


#11 Tony Cortado

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 07:55 PM

Wow.  That was easy.  Thanks!  In 2 days I'll venture into the unknown get the drive belts, timing belts, and tensioners changed, and I"ll post photos here for others to reference.



#12 john in KY

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 08:13 PM

Good idea to first loosen the balancer bolt.  If you plan to redo the camshaft seals, loosen those bolts before removing the T-belts. 



#13 Tony Cortado

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 09:14 PM

Thanks John, I will get some camshaft seals as well.  Has anyone purchased the kits on ebay?  Does this sound right? https://goo.gl/jhVaun



#14 DaveT

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 10:29 PM

I'm not sdure what you mean by "the 2 outer belts" - if you mean the V belts, those are in the way, remove them.  Take the alternator off.  Flip the AC compressor up out of the way.  Makes it a lot easier to see what you are doing.

 

Don't buy cheapo kits / parts, if you intend to keep the car for a long time.

 

If you do the cam seals, which are probably due, it is silly not do replace the o rings that are on the small piece the seals press into.  Best source for those is a dealer.

 

I use the FSM procedure for installing the timing belts.  This has been written out in a number of other timing belt threads.

 

You have to remove the crank pulley to remove the center cover so that you can remove the timing belts.

 

The sketch above isn't clear - but with the flywheel timing mark as described, one cam will have it's timing mark up and the other will have it's mark down.  Do look at the position of them before you take them off.

 

When using the FSM procedure, each belt is installed when it's cam is in the mark up position, and there is no force from the valve springs fighting you, or possibly throwing off the torque reading for the tensioning.

 



#15 scoobiedubie

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 11:28 PM

The cheapo Ebay timing belt kits work just fine.  Better change your water pump while you are in there.  And the night before you install the water pump, put some gasket maker over the top hole over the water pump bearing/shaft.  That will keep the dirt out and make the water pump last 10000 more miles than if you don't seal that hole.  You also need some large thin O-rings for the front of the camshaft cover plate.  When you put the front timing belt covers back on, use a plastic or rubber washer at bolts so the bolts don't seize up in the rear timing belt covers.



#16 Tony Cortado

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 04:21 PM

Hey guys.  Done working on it for the day, only had 20 minutes.  I had a heckuva time getting the camshaft bolt off, but ended up doing the bump trick with a breaker bar ... against the skid plate since my breaker bar didn't reach the ground, and I'm not going to use another pulley for leverage.  I did bend the skid plate a little  :wacko:  :wacko: But that's what it's made for  :ph34r:  Now I will need to figure out to rotate the camshaft / flywheel back to the mark.  Pffff.

 

So a receipt in the car shows 2 timing belts about 35k miles ago.  They didn't change the pulleys, nor water pump, or anything else for that matter.  I did get that cheapo ebay kit, and I don't think I'll do the water pump.  This is my only car, and I need it asap (I literally have a baby on the way any day, she's 39 weeks and 3 days).  I'm hoping that this minimal repair will last me for the summer, when I will have more time, and probably a second car, and a bigger income.  I am planning on getting another Loyale that I've seen sitting in someone's backyard not far from, and piecing them together properly.

 

Posting the photo results here.  You can see that it was in fact a pulley, which was being held in place by the TB cover.  When I got the center cover off, a couple bearings hit me in the face.  Hah.  I'm a noob for lyfe.  Will post updates once I get the belts/ pulleys, and get her started!

 

29541388_10100286059292909_8510388483178

 

29541451_10100286059297899_1249045704775

 

29683306_10100286059342809_7810494630913

 

29543017_10100286059302889_3056141076098

 

 

 



#17 jono

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 04:59 PM

I have just been in to inspect the timing belts on an engine recently bought. All like new, but decided whiile in there, may as well replace the oil pump seals, front crank seal and camshaft seals and camshaft seal carrier O ring. I am a little particular and prefer to use genuine and did so. Looks like I got a new water pump with engine as well :)

 

I am waiting for someone to also suggest you do the oil pump O rings and seal - I am suggesting it here and now.

 

Twice now have found previous seal installers not quite get the mickey mouse shaped seal correct so glad I got in there to do the oil pump seal up.

 

I use vaseline  or light grease to hold mickey mouse in place and lube all oil seals lips. The factory oil pump shaft always comes with a clear grease already in it.

 

Frayed belt - good find !

 

And study up the tightening torque required for all bolts. You might be surprised how little they need to be, especially the timing belt tensioner bolts


Edited by jono, 27 March 2018 - 05:01 PM.


#18 jono

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:06 PM

a note on keeping timing belts clean will likely come with belts, waring to not get coolant, oil or anything else on them or they may likely rot before your eyes. When you put timing belt covers back on , notice either side of the water pump, not always best seal going on there, I add silicon to keep crap out

 

I do like the water pump weep hole plug idea !



#19 DaveT

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 07:48 PM

The 3 idlers don't last much longer than the belts, so it's not good to change belts and not the idlers.

#20 DaveT

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 07:52 PM

Once you have the crank shaft bolt off, you can put the pulley and the bolt back on, and use a big wrench to turn the crank for timing alignment. It won't be crazy tight when you have to remove it later so getting it back off is no big deal. When you are done, you have to find a way to hold the flywheel and tighten it properly however.

#21 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:40 AM

If you have a manual, put it in a gear, set the ebrake and wheel chock both sides of a front tire. Crank down on the bolt until it locks down tight. I think it's supposed to be set to 140 ft-lbs. So just bounce on the breaker bar a couple times and you should be fine.

If you have an automatic, you can try setting a prybar against the starter teeth on the torque converter, but that's risky. Not entirely sure how we did it previously without dismounting the transmission and engine from each other.

Twitch

#22 Tony Cortado

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:08 PM

Ohhhh Shiny!

 

Good idea or bad idea: clean up the TB guts with brake cleaner after I get all the frayed crud out?  A little oil and coolant (from above, not inside), dripped in the critical areas, so I want to make sure it's dry as a bone in the desert.  So long as I let it dry for 10 minutes?

 

19555023_10100286336392599_1474600633748



#23 Tony Cortado

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:15 PM

Wait a sec, I might as well do the oil pump seal.   Is this the right part?  Some OEM parts on the subi website show the oil seal and the camshaft gasket as the same, so I am not sure what part number to use.

 

https://www.ebay.com...et/263259480148


Edited by Tony Cortado, 28 March 2018 - 01:17 PM.


#24 Gloyale

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:30 PM

The cheapo Ebay timing belt kits work just fine.  Better change your water pump while you are in there.  And the night before you install the water pump, put some gasket maker over the top hole over the water pump bearing/shaft.  That will keep the dirt out and make the water pump last 10000 more miles than if you don't seal that hole.  You also need some large thin O-rings for the front of the camshaft cover plate.  When you put the front timing belt covers back on, use a plastic or rubber washer at bolts so the bolts don't seize up in the rear timing belt covers.

 

DON'T put anything in the water pumps vent hole.  ScoobieDoobie pulled that particular piece of advice out of his own butt, and has been spreading it around for years.  It's not recommended by anyone else.  If that hole needed to be sealed, it would have been sealed or not even be there.  It is open as a vent for a reason, to allow grease in the bearing to expand and contract.  You will make it more likely that the inner seal will blow out.

 

If you can't get proper O-rings for the cam end covers, you can simply use a thin bead of "the Right Stuff" black RTV.  Don't tighten the 2 bolts for these too much.....easy to strip.

 

timing covers, Just don't run the bolts in too hard, and they won't get stuck in the rear covers. Don't mess with rubber washers or anything else.

 

If you are going to reseal the oil pump, make sure you do all 3 parts, O-ring, "mickey mouse" formed gasket, and the shaft seal.

Do not remove the nut holding pulley onto pump shaft while on car.  You'll end up rotating the pump backwards and pulling the bypass valve ball out of it's seat.   Unbolt the pump body (5, 10mm head bolts)  and then use an old timing belt or other padded rubber to clamp the pump rotor into a vice, then remove the 12mm nut that holds the pulley on.



#25 rdweninger

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 03:14 PM

do a google search for 'Subaru ea82 oil pump seal kit'

You will see the 3 parts and what we mean by "micky mouse gasket".

Also, listen to GLoyale.   That 'hole' in the waterpump is a weep hole.     It lets you know when the inner seal starts leaking ... which means REPLACE your water pump asap.    Cooling systems are extremely important on ALL internal combustion engines.

  Congrats on the timing belt replacement - ALWAYS replace the tensioners and idlers.   It's cheap insurance.







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