kennycoulter Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 I have the vehicle up on stands, I started tearing into the suspension for the ball joint cut out job.....I am replacing the fuel filler neck as soon as the correct one comes in the mail.I have read BOTH recommendations of LEAVING the gaskets alone if they are not leaking, AND also to change them, considering the mileage.Car has about 168,xxx miles, I assume that the valve clearance needs checked anyway.I already bought the Subaru HG and timing kits....... I have recently done a coolant pressure test and do not have coolant leaking. SHOULD I or Shouldn't I replace the Head Gaskets at this point, considering the mileage?The car has now been sitting for 2 weeks, so I wonder what new problem will arise.What else should I do while the car is in the air?Also, has anyone ever done patch panels on the typical rust spots behind the rear doors? Does anyone sell patch panels?The car is otherwise still pretty nice I am hope to keep it on the road for a long time, but I do not want it to break me.I need to make it reliable for when I put the '03 H6 sedan in the air for similar ball joints/shocks/fuel filler neck, and hopefully patch panels in the same spots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 If you've got the time and resource I'd say yes. Don't bother with valve clearance, if it's running well. Unless you want to do a lot of measuring and bucket shim thickness checking and and then math to figure out what to order. Just keep the buckets in their correct order and replace them in the heads in the same bores. Do the rear separator too. Might even consider pulling the pistons and putting new rings in, it will run cleaner/stronger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) If it IS a dual cam, then yes do the HG's. And FOR SURE check the valve lash. If they are going to burn an exhaust valve it's going to usually happen around 150k to 175k. Don't be that guy - check the lash. Shim adjustment isn't difficult if you can add and subtract. If you have the heads off, you can just pull out the valves that are tight, and grind or have ground the tips to adjust the lash. Lap the seats, change the stem seals, etc. GD Edited April 12, 2018 by GeneralDisorder 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 They could easily not fail before rust makes the car a waste of time anyway which sounds imminent, I wouldn’t want it as you describe it. If it’s that rusty I’d be lean towards leave them and plan on it lasting long enough to find something non rusty. You’re not saving any real labor doing it now it sounds. All that being said sure you sound like you’ve got time and parts so why not replace them? But that’s why you’ll hear it both ways. by this age who’s to say it hasn’t been seriously overheated in its life and already replaced? replace it....and then the rod bearings blow on you, awesome. These things were blowing under warranty with low miles and have had 20 years of significant failure rates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 I would check valve lash for the reasons he said, sometimes exhaust valves get tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennycoulter Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 So, If I have a full gasket kit, it would be easiest to do the timing and HGs OUT of the car, and at that time, I might be able to check the rod bearing movement if the oil pan is off, does this sound correct?I do not necessarily have the TIME, but I have the extra vehicles, for it to be out of commission and be able to drive another as a loaner.IF the HGs could be done IN the car, I was going to go that route...... but I do not think that I would have a good time with that OR checking the clearance on the valve3s, considering that it took so long to change the spark plugs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 The HG's can be done in the car. That said - we don't do them that way. It's much harder to properly clean and lube the head bolt threads, and properly clean the block mating surfaces so we just don't do it. And on the DOHC you are fighting the exhaust buckets wanting to fall out of the head. Use really sticky assembly lube if you do it that way. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Lift the side of the engine that you’re doing and repeat for the other side - such that the engine is pointing up to gain more clearance and it’s much better than the valve cover wrestling. most people yank the engine, it’s more thorough and straight forward and provides access to other things. The headbolt clearance is very tight. Some people install all the bolt holes and then lower the head in place onto the gasket and block while trying to keep the bolts from sliding and hanging in something. It’s not fun doing that. Edited April 13, 2018 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 It probably has a plastic separator plate - that would be enough reason to pull it for the reseal IMO. GD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennycoulter Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 I am unfamiliar with the plastic separator plate. Where would this be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) So, If I have a full gasket kit, it would be easiest to do the timing and HGs OUT of the car, and at that time, I might be able to check the rod bearing movement if the oil pan is off, does this sound correct? I do not necessarily have the TIME, but I have the extra vehicles, for it to be out of commission and be able to drive another as a loaner. IF the HGs could be done IN the car, I was going to go that route...... but I do not think that I would have a good time with that OR checking the clearance on the valve3s, considering that it took so long to change the spark plugs..... You can't really check the rod bearings even with pan off. maybe side clearance on 2 or 3 rods, but can't check the main clearances or out of round. But you will get to examine the inside of it and see if there are metal shaving or other signs of issues. pull the engine for the separator plate and it's the better way in general. Thinking again I guess it would be a good idea to check the lash. I've just not found it to be an issue on most DOHC, NA engines. To GDs idea about grinding valve ends to set clearance rather than adjust shims.......I'm guessing you don't really have the proper tools to remove valves on this engine......You don't want to use an improper tool and end up gouging the walls of the bucket pots.......I'd just go with the shim change if you need too. Edited April 13, 2018 by Gloyale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I am unfamiliar with the plastic separator plate. Where would this be? just a plate on the back of the engine between the engine and trans. only accessible with engine and trans removal. plastic plates commonly leak, upgrade to metal plates. To GDs idea about grinding valve ends to set clearance rather than adjust shims.... On the EZ30's I grind the back of the shims (side not touching the cam) until i gain the necessary clearance. i haven't gotten into them in a long time, can you do that on the EJ25's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 9 out of 10 times the lash really isn't an issue. It's that 10% that will get ya. And the added step of pulling out the feeler gauge is worth the few minutes to verify before pulling the cams to get at the head bolts. I bought a one owner, well maintained 97 OBW years ago with 165k and a huge hole a #4 exhaust valve. No real underlying reason for it - just was one of the 10%. HG's had never been done. Just bad luck. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennycoulter Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 So far, everything on the suspension is too rusty and breaking.I am wondering if I am wasting my time, thinking that taking the control arm and spindle off together, MAY allow me to cut and drill all of the old broken bolts out. I have read and saved the info on how to remove the frozen ball joints, but I didn't think that they would stick into the control arm also. I am used to dealing with a ball joint where the pin sticks UP into the spindle, and always seems easier to pop out. I want to say that I have only done one other where it faced DOWN (older front drive buick)....I DO remember that one giving me troubles too, but it wasn't as rusty. I can't seem to get enough pressure on, nor a good enough hit directly at the contact point of the pin in the arm. I am afraid that I might peen the stamped steel arm OVER or distort the actual hole for the pin.Any additional tips?Give up?re-assemble and drive it until the balljoint pops out then scrap it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I too had a rusty (Ohio) Forester. I bit the bullet and bought new rear knuckles, brake backing plates, Lateral Link bolts/hardware bushings, hubs, bearings and seals when I did my rear wheel bearings. I didn't have a lift or air tools so cutting/burning it all out and putting in new stuff was not the cheapest way to go but I didn't have to pay labor and got it all back together. Front ball joints are a pain. Sometimes hitting two hammers against each other on the control arm can pop the ball joint out of the control arm. Sometimes using a long (4 ft) pry bar works too. This tool works as well The bigger issue can be getting the ball joint out of the knuckle. This tool helps Others that have more experience may do it differently but those options worked for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) Pickle fork. Don’t get anything else. The first tool posted above can break at the fingers if they’re bad enough. Get a pickle fork, it works every time and almost can’t break by design. Theyre seriously way better than any other option. One downside is they basically ruin the ballpoint by ripping the boot. But who cares just replace it if you’re in the rust belt. Edited April 19, 2018 by idosubaru 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 You really NEED an acetylene torch for this kind of work. It makes most of this stuff trivial. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 You really NEED an acetylene torch for this kind of work. It makes most of this stuff trivial. GD The blue wrench can do wonders. Some jobs are worth paying someone with the tools and equipment to do the job efficiently. Sometimes it's better to write a check first rather than try and screw it up and then take it to a shop. Just increases the cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennycoulter Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 I have a pickle fork, but I will have to get the broken bolts out of the knuckle first. I use a long pry bar between the knuckle and arm to separate the ball joint, usually, and USUALLY I am able to just tap the side of the knuckle or arm with a hammer and it will pop out. If I can get THAT out, then I will be on good fighting ground, and be able to cut everything else out.I have typical tools plus a press: NO lift. I will finally have some time to get back to it tonight, and a couple of hours between Saturday and Sunday.....Hopefully I can get somewhere with it and not lose motivation again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennycoulter Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 I finally got things apart, and have the spindle off. I will have to drill out and repair quite a few bolts, but despite that, things are okay.... I did not and never do have good luck with using a torch....maybe I never heat it long enough? It discolored the metal, but I never made it red hot.WHAT is the sensor on the top of the fuel filler neck's name?I assume it is a sort of purge to reroute vapor to the charcoal can...I had everything ordered, but with all of that stuff being rusty, THAT was also shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennycoulter Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 I finally have both spindles removed, and found the fuel filler shut off switch (I thought it was a type of purge valve).Waiting on the switch to come in, and will carefully have to drill out a few bolts on the spindles before I am ready to throw anything back together......I am still wondering if I really should do anything with the engine (timing or HGs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennycoulter Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 I finally got everything on the suspension apart and removed, and starting to go back together........problem is: the bearings were so stuck on the hub, that while pressing out, the bearings separated, shot out, and broke off a section of the ABS "tone ring".I am looking at Rockauto, but I am not seeing a picture of it. They have something called a speed wheel sensor reluctor. Subaru dealership wants 137, subarupartwholesale wants 97.Would anyone happen to have a used one that they could ship to me, hopefully close so I can get the car back together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 just bolt the pieces back to the hub. It doesn't need to be an unbroken ring, just as long as it's all there it will still make a pulse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 yeah just cobble it together - it just needs a pulse, they're not all that structural or big deal. weld it back on, bolt the pieces back on, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 some peopel have even taken a used one, cut it, and installed it that way you don't have to disassemble the hub to swap the tone ring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.