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How much lift??


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26 replies to this topic

#1 PHATBRAT

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 01:49 AM

I found a really nice (brand new) set of 31" tires (real rugged/beefy) for a really good price (JunkYard). How much lift do I need to run them on my BRAT? I think I know but want to be sure. I have been looking into building a lift kit. I don't think the 4 inch kit will work. I think I need a minimum of 6 inches. Anyone?
(Also, please include if you are talking about trimming fenders in addition to the lift or not) Thanks, Boz

#2 subarubrat

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 02:02 AM

Heavy trimming will get you enough clearance to mount them at 6 inches lift but the turning radius will be rather poor as it will rub inboard.

Trimming and 8 inches will get you proper clearance for a decent turning radius and allow you to fit the Tcase you will eventually want to look into. 31's will be a big impact without re gearing.

This is based on actual experience, take it or leave it. I am sure the Mods Planned: crowd will be along to pontificate on how it will fit otherwise.

#3 Guest_taprackready_*

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 09:30 AM

This is based on actual experience, take it or leave it. I am sure the Mods Planned: crowd will be along to pontificate on how it will fit otherwise.


Kind of a holier than thou comment

Bill

#4 VaporTrail

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 09:52 AM

Like Scott says, how much cutting pounding do you want to do?

I'd go at least 8 if putting 31's on....

This had a 4" BYB/Ozified Kit, and I cut the wheel well out all the way around, both front and back, and I had to "re-locate" the front passenger footwells about 3" shorter with a VBFH (sledge) to the rear of the front inner fenderwell. so much so, that it threw the doors out of alignment.

where the door hinges bolt to the body, was the back of the front wheel wells! everything forward of it was beat back to fit the 30's.

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#5 MorganM

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 11:04 AM

Kind of a holier than thou comment

Bill


When you are cool enough you can say stuff like that too :rolleyes:

Anyway, back on topic...

How wide are those 31"s ? What rims w ould you be putting them on? With 15" pug rims you can go as wide as 9.5". More offset rims you can go wider. Height isnt really a big deal; you could cut and beat clearance to make 31"s fit with just a BYB lift.

#6 Quidam

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 02:32 PM

Kind of a holier than thou comment

Bill

Hey taprackready,

It may seem like it, however, it looks like it's true.

For instance, look at the Justy threads and the comments being published...from people who've never driven one. Actually, I'd be up for a Subaru meet that included a drag race. Any idea what a 5 speed, DL, front wheel drive stripper will do? There would be some embarrassed EA owners around, that's for sure.

Q

#7 subarubrat

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 07:29 PM

"Kind of a holier than thou comment"


The unfortunate truth is there has been ALOT of bad information posted recently. It has gotten worse lately. I hate to see people investing time and money in major projects, some of them on their sole daily driver, that is based on speculation presented as fact. People who have never owned, used, or even seen in person a certain product or part are making absolutes that others are basing their choices on. So yes, I am a little tired of reading declairations of how a 12 inch lifted sube would handle by someone with a stock wagon. Or how a tire would or would not clear if they have never tried. Having never tried to fit 215/40/15 Rs on pugs onto an RX I would not write a rant about how well they fit and perform. So say it is holier than thou but I want to see PhatBrat running those 31s and doing so without all the hassle I went through by having insufficient lift.

#8 Rooinater

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 07:58 PM

i'd suggest at least an 8 inch lift. mine clears ok. i've beaten a little more in the rear of the front fenders and didn't really need to trim anymore than when i had a 4" with 27" tires.

as for gearing... the tcase in my opinion is a must for that tall of a tire. not to mention at least 4.11 gears... just my opinion. i've driven 26 and 27 inch tall tires on stock gearing offroad... it's not near as fun as with the tcase. i'm still relearning how to drive the tcase lift, without as much breakage. all the gearing and the tempermental and weak links... as long as you aren't heavy on the throttle you won't really break a lot of stuff. but beings the fact that i got used to going at a little higher speeds on obstacles. with my 4" lift and 27" swampers. i'm still getting used to giong slower. it's a lot easier and better to be able to crawl again!

Just my 2 cents if you have some q's im or email me. or i'll try to monitor this post. but as for going with 31" tires on stock gearing... it's your choice but you aren't going to have the power...

Semper Fidelis!!
Jared

#9 Jibs

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 10:47 PM

Would I want to look into getting a Transfer Case to run 28x8.5 tires with a 4" BYB lift? My engine would probably be stock, but I am looking to go to a weber carb and better exhaust soon.

#10 subarubrat

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 11:18 PM

I would not. The ground clearance just isn't there for a Tcase. It would practically be siting on the ground. I would say somewhere around 30s and 8 inches lift would be a fair starting point. 30's with an H6 is pretty decent, better than stock, but with the EA81, I would go T case.

#11 PHATBRAT

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 11:37 PM

Well, I guess that settles it. I will have to pass, too bad, they are brand new tires with ALOT of meat. Not sure when I will get this lift built. I was hoping soon, but lack of money dampers me. I can weld and all of that and have access to a welder at the base but money is always the driving factor.

The tires are 31x10.50's and I was looking to mount them on the rims I got off of that toyota a while back (Pics of rims are in my gallery)

Speaking of those rims, Anyone have any suggestions for a REEAAALLLYYY good degreaser/cleaner. They have some sort of grease/grime build up on them, It is a ROYAL PITA to get it off. I let my degreaser sit on it for 15 minutes plus used toilet bowl cleaner, oven cleaner etc.... That stuff just doesn't want to come off. (I scrubbed it with a scouring pad) It comes off a little at a time but I feel like I may be ruining the rims (scratching/dulling) I want them to be decent looking rims (Yeah, they may end up getting dirty/beat up) but I want them to clean up nicely. Any suggestions?

#12 MorganM

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 11:17 AM

I guess you gotta ask yourself if you JUST want to fith those 31"s or are you going BIG with this BRAT? With a 3" lift on my wagon, and 30"x9.5" tires on 15" pug rims (read: a little offset) there was still room to trim, beat and clear. I have no doubt in my mind that 31" by 9.5" tires would have fit BUT yourse are 10.5" and thats just too wide on Pugs :( as you will rub on the struts. Is that speculation? sure; but based on some pretty solid observation. With the 29"x8.5" on the same rims that I'm currently running there is still lots to beat out of the way and clear for. Do I rub a lot? sure; but honestly it has not effected me one bit offroading. The only clearing I dide for those 30"s was folding over/flattening out that unibody seam in the fenderwell, cutting the front fenders in half, and beating some unibody out of the way to increase inside turning clearance. There is stil lots to bash in the fender wells on the unibody.

You want 31"s and major ground clearance for some seriouse offroading? As stated in above posts; I would highly recomend 6 or even 8 inches of lift. Thats going to seriously open your options to drivetrain modifications (read: tcase upgrade) and tire posibilities. This is also a HUGE project.

Are you making a trail rig (like my little wagon) or a seriouse offroading BRAT?

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 11:45 AM

I guess you gotta ask yourself if you JUST want to fith those 31"s or are you going BIG with this BRAT? With a 3" lift on my wagon, and 30"x9.5" tires on 15" pug rims (read: a little offset) there was still room to trim, beat and clear. I have no doubt in my mind that 31" by 9.5" tires would have fit BUT yourse are 10.5" and thats just too wide on Pugs :( as you will rub on the struts. Is that speculation? sure; but based on some pretty solid observation.

You sir, have NO IDEA what you are talking about. 31's with a 3" lift on an EA81 is basically impossible. You would need at least a 4" in the front to clear a 30, and even then you would have to beat the fender wells to death. I beat the fender wells so hard on my wagon that I couldn't close the doors (pucker factor = 7) and had to jack them back up with a floor jack to get them realigned. And that was just to clear a 28 with 3.5" of lift in the front.

EA82's are known to fit larger tires - even stock - than EA81's. There are people running 27's with no lift at all on EA82's - just a lot of trimming.

Just because it works on some EA82, DOES NOT MEAN it's anything like that on an EA81. You keep making this assumption, and I'm getting sick of it. Leave the EA81 info for those of us that actually own them. Stick to what you know like SubaruBrat sugested.

GD

#14 MorganM

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 12:57 PM

You sir, have NO IDEA what you are talking about. 31's with a 3" lift on an EA81 is basically impossible. You would need at least a 4" in the front to clear a 30, and even then you would have to beat the fender wells to death. I beat the fender wells so hard on my wagon that I couldn't close the doors (pucker factor = 7) and had to jack them back up with a floor jack to get them realigned. And that was just to clear a 28 with 3.5" of lift in the front.

EA82's are known to fit larger tires - even stock - than EA81's. There are people running 27's with no lift at all on EA82's - just a lot of trimming.

Just because it works on some EA82, DOES NOT MEAN it's anything like that on an EA81. You keep making this assumption, and I'm getting sick of it. Leave the EA81 info for those of us that actually own them. Stick to what you know like SubaruBrat sugested.

GD

Fine, I'll reframe from anything remotly to do with EA81s. Yall happy now? Good...

Sorry you guys get angry in real life and take this stuff so personal. I'll try to point out every mistake you make also; THEY MAKE ME ANGRY IRL AND I FEEL THE NEED TO USE CAPSLOCK RUDELY POINT THEM OUT!!!!! :rolleyes: (i should prolly note that was sarcasim so nobody gets more angry and takes it personally...)

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 03:03 PM

We all make mistakes, I just wanted to point out that EA81's and EA82's are considerably different in some ways. You can draw parrallels in some cases, and it's ok to do so if no one else has already offered the information - but always add the discaimer that your information may not be the same since the vehicle is older/newer. But when people like SubaruBrat and others who have done extensive modifications with EA81's say it won't work..... well you get the idea. I know you just want to help, but wouldn't you feel bad if you guy bought the 31's and then couldn't get them on?

GD

#16 MorganM

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 03:49 PM

That would truely be sad; and I understand. Fortunatly in this situation he had already bought them, and they dont fit :)

I really dont try to make assumptions unless I am 99% confident its possible on first hand knowledge. The differences beteen platforms are more then I know; that is for sure. Probably would be best if I just kept those assumptions to myself, and see how they truely unfold.

Just trying to help :drunk: I just remember all the ppl telling me over 3 years ago that 30"s wouldnt fit on my wagon; wish more ppl had said GO FOR IT !_! Wanna try and put 31"s on your BRAT? GO FOR IT!!!

Peace

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 04:13 PM

We are all guilty of it sometimes. It's cool. I've done it myself. I just try to stay out of the EA82 stuff personally, unless it's general enough that it would apply to any car. There are a lot of things automotive that are applicable to nearly any brand or model of car. I know a little about EA82's - mostly engine stuff tho. For example I'm going to be putting SPFI on my wagon's EA81 - so I've done a bit of research on that specific system. I've never tried to lift one however, so I don't usually comment on stuff relating to that.

GD

#18 archemitis

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 04:15 PM

i thnk what morganm is saying is...
if your not a wussie you could make them fit by trimming the crap out of your car!_!
he had to cut and hammer a ton more stuff than alot of ea82 guys because his susp sits a little shorter than a 4x would without newer shocks/springs.
anything is possible. i got 25.5 inchers on my stock hatch, without the lift cranked in. so with a 3 inch lift, and trimming and cranking the stock lift. 31s would fit. its all about how far you wanna go. i'de rather have bigger tires with as little lift as possible. tires give you the ground clearance, not the lift.

#19 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 04:24 PM

if your not a wussie you could make them fit

That's a very bold statement my friend. Ask around - I'm sure someone will be willing to tell you how big of a "wussie" I am. I have 3.5" of lift in the front with my suspension all the way up. I have 28" tires, and they still rub in turns - not to mention when I hit a bump in the trail. Where can you trim to make this possible? I would really like to see it. The floorpan sheet metal rubs on the tire - if you cut that out then you will have no floor in your car, and nothing for the door hinge to attach to.....

And where is your lifted rig? I see no experience in these matters from your side either.... Seriously - you don't know what you are saying.

GD

#20 archemitis

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 04:42 PM

unf, if your not afraid of cutting and pounding, it will fit. dooder, theres not reely any arguing that, its not gonna hit the front frame rails, just the floorpans?
oh no, my seats are 5 inches farther back than stock, so that shouldnt be a problem.

and... you have 3.5 inches inches more lift than me, and about 2 inch taller tires?!_! you wussed out

i am the almighty subaru guy that knows all!_! believe it mang!_!

#21 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 08:45 PM

I have 3.5" of lift in the front

you have 3.5 inches inches more lift than me.


Yep - that means I have a lifted rig, and you don't.... it would seem that you speak from your bunghole then wouldn't it?

GD

#22 archemitis

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:51 PM

mines bigger than yours =P

#23 archemitis

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:56 PM

by that i mean my offset. can you say aluminum pug

#24 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 10:05 PM

mines bigger than yours =P


Your bunghole? Man, that's more info than I needed...

GD

#25 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 10:06 PM

Oh! you mean bigger offset? I think not - I'm running chevy 6 lugs - they stick out past my fenders ~3".

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