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86 EA82 Turbo sedan surging problems **UPDATE** read last post


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50 replies to this topic

#1 Hondasucks

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 04:57 PM

Okay, I got my girfriends car all back together and ready to go, but the light surging I posted about before, is really bad now. You give it ANY pedal at all and it bucks really bad, and if you floor it, it will go for a little bit, maybe a second, then it will start to buck and backfire slightly, and while it is surging it feels like someone is turning the key on and off with it at full throttle. It did not do this with the old engine. I have swapped out the fuel pump, replaced the fuel filter, the distributor is off the old engine, but it surged with the dizzy off of the engine that is in it as well. I'm running out of things to switch out, and my mom and dad are bugging me to get the car to Jessica's house, but I can't even drive it over there it surges so bad.

#2 DerFahrer

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 06:41 PM

Injector problem? I'm experiencing a bit of that, although less pronounced in my XT. I think it's because I ran it dangerously close to Empty one time and maybe sucked some sludge through the system. I've been running Lubro-Moly Jectron FI cleaner, which has helped a bit, and I still need to replace my fuel filter, which I anticipate to help more.

#3 WJM

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 08:17 PM

Pop the fuel leve sender out, and look inside the gas tank.

I bet you $1,000,000 bucks it rusty in there.



Ofcourse, you know that If im wrong, I dont have any $ anyways.....


BUT....if i am right, you'll go..."who'd a thunk that..." Why me of course! took me a few months to chase that problem down on my turbo wagon when i first got it. Fresh fuel did not help either.

Otherwise....id go thur the electrical system and re ground the engine grounding system...and add a few ground from the batt to engine to body to engine to body to batt to body to engine.....the list goes on.

#4 baccaruda

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 09:54 PM

how's it do idling with no load?

pop out the injectors and check them for flow, or if carbed, look down the throat. skeet's car had a similar problem that was caused by a leaking gasket (vacuum leak) in the middle of the carb. I say it sounds like a vacuum problem or a fuel delivery electronic problem... good luck.
what about that condenser thingy off of the coil? etc etc etc

#5 WJM

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 09:56 PM

Turbo, so no carb.

I bet it idles great if the tank is rusty. Mine did that. Check that first, if tis not rusty...then go deeper. Check the simple and easy stuff first.

#6 rallyruss

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 01:58 AM

yes simple stuff first.

violent shaking/ misfiring on acceleration is usually ignition related. how is the condition of the plug wires? coil?

yes it is rather simple to look in the tank too.

fuel problems are usually a little "softer" feeling than ignition.

just some things I learned over the years from smarter people than myself. never has failed me yet.

#7 WJM

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 06:27 AM

Ive had a few different SUBARUs do this...my GL-10 did the surging under any throttle with any load...and it was HARD HARD bucking. An XT Turbo i got runnning, did it too...but its bucking was a little ssofter and more spread out. It also had the rusty tank, but it was not as heavy as the GL-10's.

#8 SubaRube

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Posted 09 July 2004 - 12:10 PM

I had some really bad bucking after washing my car last month. Water in the gas. Some Seafoam took care of it.

#9 WJM

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Posted 10 July 2004 - 11:58 AM

yeah, that will do it too. lol

BUT...even after rinsing out my GL-10's tank...and using fresh gas....it still did it. the rust contamintated it somehow, and it never ran correctly. So...$10 and a small trip to local SUBARU guy....almost brand new condition fuel tank. WOW...it runs perfectly now!!

#10 Hondasucks

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Posted 10 July 2004 - 09:22 PM

Funny thing is, it NEVER did it with the old motor! And when it first did it it was quite mild, just a ligth surging that it would do after a while at like, 1/3 throttle or more, and if I changed gears or backed out of it and then got on it again it would be fine. Then I drove it around teh block like, a week ago and it was REAL bad. Can't give it any throttle at all... GRRR this is irritating! I guess I'll check the tank first and go from there...

#11 WJM

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Posted 10 July 2004 - 09:33 PM

Dude...its been THREE days and you ahve not checked the tank yet? Geez....get on the ball, errr, SUBARU!! ;)

#12 Hondasucks

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 03:50 AM

yeah yeah yeah I know.. I'm lazy.. I'm gonna tinker with it tomorrow, I wanna get it done before my girlfriend gets back from new york, so I can get crackin on the turbowagon...:brow:

#13 WJM

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 08:01 AM

Well guess what....its TOMORROW already! So get to cracking!! :banana: :burnout:

#14 Warp3

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 12:32 PM

Hmmm...I wonder if this could be related to the surging/stumbling issues I'm having. How much work is involved in what you were talking about WJM? You don't have to drop the tank or anything to check, do you?

Speaking of which, the more I drive this car, the more I think the AAC (Auxiliary Air Control) Valve is, indeed, the cause of the hesitation the car has before it's warmed up (which is far more noticeable than the other issue).

#15 WJM

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 12:57 PM

Ive got an extra one of those valves somewhere.

The tank....open the trunk, pull back the carpet. There will be a plate held down with 3 phillips screws. Take those out. Then, there are 6 or so 10MM nuts holding the sending unit on/in the tank. Remove those. Pull the wires for the sening unit up, and unplug it. now pull the unit up....then you will have to get the unit sideways so the float will come out of the tank. There. Now, shine flash light down in there, and yu should be able to see the bottom of the tank. A LIGHT coat of rust is normal.....my GL-10 runs fine with that...as well as some other N/A wagons ive worked on. If its rusty rust rust...and you can scrape it away wih a scredriver or something, and debris is moving about in the gas when stirred....oh my....you better take the tank out and flush/clean it REALLY GOOD (I never tried it) or replace it with a near new one, or one that only has the very light coating of it.

For me, the whole process of checking the tank takes, at most, 10 mins.

Oh, and the plate will also be sealed with a type of really thick RTV type stuff thats ULTRA STICKY. That stuff should stick the plate....just pry up one side of the plate with a screwdriver, and and then its removeable by hand.

#16 Warp3

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 01:20 PM

Y'know, maybe I should just bring my car down there to Charlotte one weekend and see if you can help me get this thing running right...LOL :)

#17 WJM

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 01:29 PM

Sure thing. We should do that. Between Steven and I, it should be running perfectly.

#18 Warp3

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 07:33 PM

I would have bumped one of the older threads I had about this, but this one is recent and still relevant to the topic so here goes:

I *may* have found the problem I'm having with my car hesitating and "surging" (and even if it's not the source, it's still a definite problem). I had done the "cold idle" test on my AAC valve yesterday evening (i.e., with the car at idle but not warmed up, clamp the hose coming from the AAC valve and see if the idle makes a notable change (it should, if it's working properly, as the AAC valve should be letting extra air through)) and it passed fine. Well I went to test the "warm idle" today when I got home (same test but it should NOT change the idle as the AAC valve should be closed when the engine is warm) and it passed that test as well, but I discovered something by accident along the way.

When reaching the pliers in to grab the hose, I lightly nudged the vacuum hose that is right beside the AAC hose and the idle dropped notably! What the...!? I nudged it a few more times and every time I applied ANY pressure it would drop the idle (to the point of nearly stalling) but would return to normal when I removed the light pressure. It wasn't nearly enough pressure to "kink" or "pinch" the hose and the hoses on this thing are too hard to easily pinch anyway...LOL My guess is that there is a small crack in the vacuum hose that is fine when stationary but "opens" when moved any.

Guess it's time to quit procrastinating and install that silicone vacuum hose I bought a while back...LOL :)

#19 WJM

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 07:36 PM

You better. :banana:

#20 Warp3

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 06:42 PM

Update on my car (sorry to jack your post Hondasucks ;) ):

I replaced the cracked vacuum hose with silicone vacuum hose (and two others that were nearby and decently accessible as well...would have replaced more, but the mosquitoes were in full-on attack mode this evening! :mad: ). When I started the car up the ECS light was on!? However, it went out after a bit and hasn't returned yet...oh well...{shrug}.

So, I take it for a test drive. :eek: Holy **** this thing pulls like freaking mad!!! I knew it was down on power compared to when I bought it (even with me running 10psi via MBC), but this thing is a complete night-and-day difference from last time I drove it! The turbo spools WAY faster and the car actually pulls all the way to redline now!

So the moral of the story is...check/replace your vacuum hoses!

...now to get that intake I got from WJM installed! :D

BTW, any reference I've made in the past that these cars can be quick but aren't capable of taking on the newer Subarus is hereby recanted! Even with a full load of crap (various 5-lug swap suspension/brake parts (read: very heavy stuff), 3 wheels, and 4 tires in the cabin, plus tons of tools, a WRX intercooler, a full size spare, etc. in the trunk) this thing was still accelerating VERY hard.

#21 WJM

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 07:38 PM

Coolness. :headbang:

#22 Warp3

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 08:25 PM

Ahhhh!!! I got greedy and tried to install the intake and the now the freaking car won't run (it will start, but dies immediately)!!! :mad:

On a what-may-be-somewhat-related note, there is this kind of "rubber cap" thing on the bottom of the vacuum canister with a hose coming out of it. Does this hose actually connect to something or does it just hang there (like it's doing now)? (The FSM doesn't show ANYTHING coming out the bottom of the vacuum canister, oddly enough. :-\ )

#23 WJM

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 09:19 PM

out of the bottom of the evap cannister....yeah, it goes to the ground infront of the radiator area.

Check the intake hose and make sure its on the turbo tight...and the AFM is hooked up (duh) and watch out for the PCV piping being brittle and breaking or cracking. I had that problem....hince the PCV system I have now. :brow:

#24 Caboobaroo

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 09:34 PM

well Andrew and I noticed something yesterday. The connector for the MAF sensor was loose so we reconnected it. It seemed to run a little better until I took it out for the test drive. The surging problem was still there and it died on me once. This surging problem is so bad, my neck hurts from it. So today our buddy Chris looked at it and he noticed the disty cap was really loose so we tightened it but STILL the surging problem was there. I could relate to what you're saying WJM but it didn't sit that long in a non-running condition and it did it gradually not all at once. Also it NEVER had this type of problem with the old motor seeing I was the one driving it when the old motor cracked the head wide open and a friggin river went right into the exhaust. I believe it only sat for like 4 months before Andrew got this motor in it.... Also today after we got the disty cap tightened, I took it around the block and I had it floored the whole time in first gear and I was only doing 12mph because it would go a bit, surge really bad for a small time then it would do it again.

#25 WJM

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 04:36 AM

Did you check the gas tank yet?




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