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hill holder


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38 replies to this topic

#26 subaruru

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:16 AM

Regarding purchasing that Tee junction, this is definitely an Aftermarket item - I asked Subaru USA about the bypass idea and they not only do not offer such solutions (no Tees for sale there!), and not only do they NOT recommend it, they say that it might void certain warranties. Given the age of my car, I am not sweating much about the warranty problem! I told Subaru USA that I had found out where to find the item, etc., and that I was consulting yous for advice (good to let them know that ultimiatesubaru exists, and hold alternative views!).

Anyway, there are a lot of Tee offerings, such as the the Russell and the Dorman brands (both, I believe, available at Autozone, and probably available at Kragen as well), but my problem now is determining the size of my brake line fittings - are they 1/4 inch, 3/16 inch, or what? The Dorman Tee, I believe, offers them for US made cars, for British cars, for Japanese imports, etc., so maybe that means that the Tee for all British cars come in a specific size, the Tee for all Japanese cars come in a specific size, etc. Anyone have any idea what is the size of the brake line fittings for the 1986 Subaru GL? So far, I have figured out that the Tee has to be of the female variety - that much I figured out on my own!
:banana:

#27 Gloyale

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:41 AM

Definately metric. 8mm?

Best bet would be to take the hill holder out, and take it in to the store with you to match threads. FInd a piece of line that threads into the HH. Then use that line to find a T that fits those threads.

#28 TomRhere

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:49 PM

There is one Tee on the HH as is now. You could remove that one to source a proper sized one.
You will need 2 Tee's total when you do this. The one on there now, plus the additional one.

If you foresee a trip to the local salvage yard in your future, you could snag one out of another so equipped Subaru.

#29 subaruru

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

Help, I'm stumped! Subaru USA has no idea what the tee specs are (well, they don't make or recommend them, but they do make brake lines that fit inside them!), so they sent me to the local Subaru dealer, who couldn't help me either. I finally determined that the thread of the tee (probably an all-female junction, i.e., all 3 connections will probably be female, though I have not determined what kind of connections (male or female) enter and exit the hill holder) is 10mm with a 1.0 pitch. I had ordered a proportioning valve by mistake and took that in to Autozone who helped me find a brake line patch gizmo (a 15 cm piece of flared tubing with a male connection on each end) that would fit inside the proportioning valve, that's how I know the size and pitch. But it is proving very, very difficult to locate a tee that fits these specs. The only metric ones for Japanese autos I have seen have one male and two female connections, but that is maybe what I need? It is hard to get a look at the hill holder without having to remove it or remove lots of junk surrounding it. Anybody know the "sex" of the connections into and out of the hill holder? And if you know the brand and/or the part number, don't be shy...

Thanks again,
subaruru

#30 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:46 PM

Let me Tell you that I Had the same Problem...

...a leaky HH, and the price of a new one is OVER $200, ...

But I Only Disconnected the Cable that goes to the Hill Holder Valve and the Thing haven't Leaked Any single Brake fluid Drop in Three Years.

So Maybe you Don't need that "T" Fitting.

But if you Decide that you Still Need it, You'll Find it in a Store that Sells Brakes, hoses & Hydraulic Stuff; here in My Country we have certain Stores dedicated just to that Stuff and they have it for Sure.

You can Bring your subie to one of those Stores and Ask to the Salesman to see your Subie's HH and ask him to Test a "T" that fits its Lines.

Could I Ask: Where is "El Sobrante"?
Kind Regards.

#31 subaruru

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 04:02 PM

Hi Loyale 2.7 Turbo,

El Sobrante is a small SF East Bay town, and we have both Autozone and Kragen/ O'Reilly here. Neither of them list a tee designed specifically for a Japanese car, at least not described as such. Most of the info that they post on the online items is patchy, making it impossible to determine this using their catalogs only, either online or via PDF downloads. I have queried both Autozone and O'Reilly about this directly, and just received a mail from the latter to the effect that they do not have brake line tees in metric sizes at all. I have also queried a company called Edelman about their tees, because, again, they post little information of quality (meaning of a quality sufficient to make the determination in question).

Having to take the car in to the automotive parts dealer is a bit silly, like taking the mountain to Mohammed. But, in fact, as I indicated, I already did that in the question of Autozone, and the closest I could get was determing that the thread size and pitch are 10mm, 1.0, respectively. The Autozone guy couldn't find any tee matching these specs using his catalog, and said that maybe I could find it myself at Autozone online, armed with the improved knowledge. Alas, that didn't help, so I sent a query directly to Autozone and am awaiting a reply.

I'll try the other option you suggest, i.e., disconnect the cable and see if that stops the leaking. Regarding this, I have read here and elsewhere that the HH is tricky to adjust, and looking in hindsight, I realize that mine was grossly improperly adjusted from the day I bought it, so maybe that has contributed to the eventual leaking. I will remove the cable and see if that relieves the pressure on the HH, hopefully eliminating the leak. I understand that Subaru no longer uses a HH, if this is right, then it may be evidence that they realize that it was maybe at best a poorly thought out idea. At 200 bucks a shot, and if they are so tricky to adjust, and if improper adjustment causes them to spring a leak, then they look to me like the car part answer to an Edsel.

Thanks again for your contribution. I figure that all light we can shed on this matter can only help the next person who runs into the problem and wants to solve it definitively.

#32 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 09:58 PM

Thank you for your Kind Answer... I Never Heard about "El Sobrante" seems to be a Nice Town with a weird spanish name.

Yes, I Kindly Suggest you to leave the cable Disconnected and try it for a Couple of Days to see if the HH stop Leakin'

Give us Feedback then...
Kind Regards.

#33 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 11:43 PM

More than a Week has Passed... Did the Idea Worked for your Subie? :confused:

#34 Gloyale

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:26 AM

understand that Subaru no longer uses a HH, if this is right, then it may be evidence that they realize that it was maybe at best a poorly thought out idea. At 200 bucks a shot, and if they are so tricky to adjust, and if improper adjustment causes them to spring a leak, then they look to me like the car part answer to an Edsel.


Any Automatic equiped Subaru will have a "T" fitting of the size you need attached to the lines under the master cylinder (2 brake circuits, 4 brake lines.....they gotta split somewhere) Scavenge one from an automatic car at the junnkyard.

Subaru has continued to use the hillholder even on current models. the on;y reason they ever dropped it was for cost savings. Eliminating a feature that no other cars have and most people aren't aware of and won't miss seemed to be a good idea for saving production costs. Except with Subaru's die hard base, the feature was missed, so Subaru brought it back. I believe it's electronically activated now though.

As far as "tricky to adjust"......they aren't......it's a friggin cable that you set to be almost tight when the clutch is out.

Adjusting them one way or the other doesn't affect leakage. the only reason pulling hte cable worked to stop a leak for some, is that the rotation of the shaft aggravates the leak......not cable= no rotation= appears to not leak.

They are only 200 bucks new. Probably less than $30 from a wrecker....

I've only seen a few leaky ones out of hundreds. Used from wrecker FTW.

#35 Hotroddin

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:34 PM

The Tee you need is Brakequip Part # BQ91A

It is a M10x1.0 thread, inverted flare 3 way tee.

I used it to delete the hill holder on my '87 GL.

#36 HILLBILLYHARLOT

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 11:39 AM

I have said HH, and it seems to leak right under the rotation. I'm going to disconnect the cable and hope that remedies the leak, I'm sick of buying brake fluid, it feels weird on my hands and I hate the smell... Anywho, if that doesn't work, I'm going to RELUCTANTLY get my hands back into the brake fluid and put a "T" in place of the bastage... I HATE BRAKE FLUID!!!!

#37 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:44 AM

... I HATE BRAKE FLUID!!!!


Me Too... when goes on Painted Surfaces!!! :eek:

#38 subaruru

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 04:01 PM

My apologies to everyone who might have been waiting for feedback from me on this issue! I have been buffeted quite a bit lately, and have simply not had the time to look left or right.

Before posting this belated feedback, I read through the postings that have arrived since I last was here, and see that the discussion continued fine without me, but since I promised feedback, here it comes...

Thanks especially to Loyale2.7Turbo for the suggestion of removing the cable that operates the HH as a solution to the problem, for it works (it worked for me, anyway, though I only disconnected the cable and secured it at each end with twisters so that it can be reconnected in the event that I might want to purchase a new HH someday - besides, this was a lazy and effective solution, so that only made it better).

Thanks to Gloyale for naming the part (the Tee in question), and in that connection, I can only say that it is hard as the devil to find such a part, when no one seems to know what size the brake line is, short of taking a look at the car itself! Not even Subaru USA could tell me, nor could any parts company or any junk yard.

I see that some have suggested that the leak starts because the cable is adjusted too tight and others say that it make no difference, except that poor adjustment may aggravate the problem. I don't know about that, I tend to trust scientific (empirical) studies more than opinions. But I will say, for what its worth, that the problem with my HH first arrived after I had the booster replaced. Maybe there was a small leak there that would have been worse had there been more power behind the brake pedal, and that finally happened when I installed a new booster. But maybe it was sheer coincidence, i.e., just because A happens quickly followed by B does not mean that A caused B, something that is hard for most of us to accept, since we seem to be wired to see causality everywhere, based simply on the close temporal connection between A and B!

Anyway, problem solved, so anyone who is tired of a leaky HH can just disconnect the cable - and I disconnected it at both ends, btw, just to make sure that it didn't in any way influence the operation of the clutch - and they will likely have solved the problem.

Happy 2011! (And I'll be back with graver problems in another thread regarding a gutless engine that I suspect has something to do with the carburetor, because one day when trying to get on the freeway with a sluggish accelerator and an entrance ramp running out quickly, I just floored the damned thing, and it took off like it had a rocket behind it!):banana:

#39 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 02:36 PM

...Thanks especially to Loyale2.7Turbo for the suggestion of removing the cable that operates the HH as a solution to the problem, for it works ...


I'm Glad to know that my Lazy Solution Helped you to Solve your Subie's Brake Fluid Leakage ... :) ... You're Welcome!

...a gutless engine that I suspect has something to do with the carburetor, because one day when trying to get on the freeway with a sluggish accelerator and an entrance ramp running out quickly, I just floored the damned thing, and it took off like it had a rocket behind it!):banana:


That issue Usually is caused by the Secondary Stage of the Hitachi Carburetor.

Since that Secondary Stage is Operated by a Vacuum Valve, Sometimes one of this Things might be Happening:

- Loose or Cracked Vacuum Hose.
- Stickin' Vacuum Actuator.
- Bad Routed Vacuum Hose, so it only opens when it is Deep Accelerated.

I Kindly Suggest you to Check those Tiny Vacuum Hoses around your Subie's Carburetor.

Kind regards.




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