subusolo2nut Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Hi Guys-- I normally cruise the Older board, but I have a question--Anyone over-seas (OZ-Land--??) know if there were distributors used in any of the newer EJ series engines? And if so, how good are my chances of having someone get one for me---I'm putting a EJ22 into my project SoloII car--T-Rex-WRX & don't want any major electronics--- If you know anything, please shoot me a message or send me an E-mail--& if you want to see what I'm up to--search for T-Rex threads Thanks!! Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWX Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 I think the only one that got the distributor was the EJ-18 or was it the EJ-16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 That would work for me---Hey--you guys in OZ-land, anybody got one I can buy??? Later-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 It would have to be the EJ16, because we had EJ18s here in the States and they were like the EJ22s for ignition. I've never seen an EJ seires engine with a distributor though, and can't understand why Subaru would put a distributor on an EJ series engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAWA Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 it could be on the ej18's aswell. though I would like to know why you would want to go with a less advanced, and non-variable ignition system, than comes stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Um Nope. I have a 93 Impreza with the EJ18 in it (first year for the motor in the states) and it does not have a distributor. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 From what I've been able to gather, only the EJ15 and EJ16 got the distributor. Maybe the Australian version got one too, since their EJ18s were SPFI not MPFI. From what I understand about the distributor itself, it the basically the same as the crank angle distributor that's found on the later EA82s. So you're not really loosing any electronics. Also the electronics on an EJ engine are not that complex and maybe more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAWA Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Um Nope. I have a 93 Impreza with the EJ18 in it (first year for the motor in the states) and it does not have a distributor. Keith he was talking about over seas, they got a lot of different things over there that we didnt, like carbed ej engines for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAWA Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 how does a crank angle distributor work? is the ignition timing variable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 The ignition timing is corntoled by the ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 Yes-I want something that is not controled by a ECU--The engine will be dual carb'd with 40mm Dellortos--plus it will have fairly large cams in it, so I don't want the hassle of setting up a ECU for it--- Later-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 How? How are you going to find a distributor that has the right specifications to time the motor properly? How are you going to make the camshaft drive the distributor? How is the distributor going to advance? Imaginiative yes, but not nearly plausible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 You may have to go check out some if the kit aircraft boards and see what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 How? How are you going to find a distributor that has the right specifications to time the motor properly? How are you going to make the camshaft drive the distributor? How is the distributor going to advance? Imaginiative yes, but not nearly plausible... Very plausible--Right (passenger side) cam is cut for distributor (cross slot) & there is a mounting pad for a wide-base distributor body like was used in 80's & early 90's Hondas, Toyotas & I hope, Subarus. Any one of these units would be able to have the vaccum advance removed to allow mechanical advance only. As for specs--with a custom engine, I'll have to design the timing advance curve using a Distributor machine (old Sun unit--from the 70's)--I want centrifugal advance only--no vaccum advance--so a older dist type with the weights inside will work just fine--I have been making performance engines for the last 30 years or so & it is simpler to make a basic system than to design the mods to a ECM to get what I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAWA Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 where is this mounting base at? and how are you going to get it to connect to the camshaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 where is this mounting base at? and how are you going to get it to connect to the camshaft? When you look at the rear of the Passenger side head, you will see a plug with two offset "ears" held with two bolts-- remove the "plug" & the cam is slotted--the area where the "plug" bolts is the same as many Hiatachi-type Distributors that use a two-bolt adjustment/mount (Honda for one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 So basicly what you are trying to say is you need to go to a junkyard and grab an old dist. from a carb model Subaru engine. Grab a few becuase there are LOTS of flavors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 yeah sounds like you should just look for a Carbed EA-82 that is willing to give up it's disty and see if it matches and as for someone that asked on this thread about why a Disty here is the answer: It is a simpler system that can be more reliable especialy in areas that have not very many repair places and also if your out in the Boonies and something goes wrong with the coilpacks your screwed and have to walk a loooooong ways to find someone (considering where you can go in different countries) but with a disty the thing will keep on going and if it has points then you don't have to worry about the electronics either to bugger up on you even though those Electronic disty's are reliable as hell. This comes from years with old school VW's and studying up on Baja bugs in general to make a very bulletproof baja which never happened considering I got into Subies in a big way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 So basicly what you are trying to say is you need to go to a junkyard and grab an old dist. from a carb model Subaru engine. Grab a few becuase there are LOTS of flavors Well-its not quite that easy--but you can take a dist body that fits the hole & custom-design the advance curve to what-ever you want--- A Sun machine can give you when the advance comes in & at what RPM the total advance happens. With an assortment of springs-weights & some time you can have just what the engine needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 why a Disty here is the answer: It is a simpler system that can be more reliable especialy in areas that have not very many repair places THATS Right!! Try being at the track & have you car screw up--much easier to fix a simple system instead of not being able to run "because your car won't run":grin: Been there-done that---- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAWA Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 What is the advantage to having a distributor over a coil pack, or coils on plugs? How is it easier to fix a distributor than say a coil pack? If the coil pack is bad, you just swap in a new one, 4 bolts, 4 plugs, easy access. and it's not that hard to diagnose a bad coil pack assuming you have a FSM and a multimeter. And don't give me this business about "Who is going to carry around a FSM and multimeter" You're talking about redesigning an ignition system, you had damn better well have both of those on you at all times. subusolo2nut, where do you plan on putting the turbo if you have the distributor coming out of the back of the head? Also remember that both the oil and coolant return in that same area, and the Coolant (or is it oil?) goes right returns through that "plug". Also don't forget that ej-series ignitions are waste spark, so can the distributor take care of that aswell? GLCraigGT, if the ignition timing is controlled by the ecu, why would you even want to use a distributor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Like I said--I don't want a ECU---and don't want to do all the re-mapping that using a ECU would require--I am not using a Turbo--the class I'm running in is a Non-turbo'd/under 2.5L group. To create a crank-fire coil pak system would by default require more electronics than I want to use--The cash involved would be better spent in tires-suspension & track fees---The car at present with a 1.8 non-turbo is running faster than the older WRX's & a few sec behind the newer STi's---so to increase the engine size 400cc with the same formula I'm using should cut about 2/3 sec off my lap times--- Lastly-I suggest you look at a early 2.2 engine--That "plug" is the machined pass-thru for the cam-not a "oil or coolant return"--it has a small amount of oil pressure, as all the cam galleys in both heads, but only as a by-product, as this is only a drain-back for the rear journal. And no, I'm not carrying a FSM or a multi--to redesign back to a simpler system makes it more reliable--not less. This car started as a project to see if I could build a "good" autocross car for under $2000--to date, I am constantly placing 2nd or 3rd in my group--not bad for a 22 year old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 When you look at the rear of the Passenger side head, you will see a plug with two offset "ears" held with two bolts-- remove the "plug" & the cam is slotted--the area where the "plug" bolts is the same as many Hiatachi-type Distributors that use a two-bolt adjustment/mount (Honda for one) It's been a while since I took that "plug" off, so I don't remember what the cam looks like behind it. But I do know that would be the oil supply for the turbo if it were a Turbo Legacy. That's why you see it on the passenger head but not on the driver head. That's the only purpose of that plug. Nonetheless, I still don't see how you're going to get a distributor to fit in there. And who says that the distributor off an EA82 is going to time the engine properly? Let's analyze this here... The distributor fires each plug based on the distance between each terminal on the distributor cap and the speed at which the rotor is turning. The distributor is just the right diameter so that by the time piston #1 is at or close to TDC on the compression stroke, the rotor should reach that terminal in time to fire the plug. It's designed specifically to spin at a predetermined ratio in relation with an EA82 camshaft in order to time the engine properly. What if you manage to concoct this creation and get the disty to drive off an EJ22 cam and fire? You set the rotor facing the #1 terminal at piston #1 TDC compression. But what if the diameter of the distributor is too small? (Keeping in mind here Subaru firing order is 1-3-2-4) What if the rotor has already fired plug #3 and is already halfway to firing plug #2 when cylinder #3 is at TDC and ready to be fired? As the saying goes, ANYTHING is possible if you have the ability, determination, and most inportantly, money. But you are literally making things much more complicated in the hopes of making things simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 And who says that the distributor off an EA82 is going to time the engine properly? Let's analyze this here... The distributor fires each plug based on the distance between each terminal on the distributor cap and the speed at which the rotor is turning. The distributor is just the right diameter so that by the time piston #1 is at or close to TDC on the compression stroke, the rotor should reach that terminal in time to fire the plug. It's designed specifically to spin at a predetermined ratio in relation with an EA82 camshaft in order to time the engine properly. What if you manage to concoct this creation and get the disty to drive off an EJ22 cam and fire? You set the rotor facing the #1 terminal at piston #1 TDC compression. But what if the diameter of the distributor is too small? (Keeping in mind here Subaru firing order is 1-3-2-4) What if the rotor has already fired plug #3 and is already halfway to firing plug #2 when cylinder #3 is at TDC and ready to be fired? Nice try--Unless the engine in question is strange by "normal" standards, you will find 4 stokes rotate the cam at 1/2 crankshaft speed--the cap vs rotor electrode length is also a constant---different caps just have different rotor length--that's all. Caps seperate the internal electrodes to reduce cross-fire--the wider the spacing--the less chance for crossing--So a EA82 distributor will work--however, this unit would not be my first option--I want a unit that has both mechanical & vaccum advance--the vaccum would be removed, but the mechanical with weights & springs is my area--I've been a Professional Mechanic starting in 1975 & have been building racecars from the late 70's--I started working on Subarus in the dealership in 1981. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subusolo2nut Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Just to set the record straight--you can use almost any distributor in almost any engine (of course matching 4-6-8-12-etc)--The most extreme example I can think of --- In the mid 80's I was part of a group that were making racing MGB engines--We could not get enough voltage thru the stock cap/rotor combo (about 20.000 volts)--we needed 2/3 times that to fire the plugs at the compression the engines were using (12.5 to 1), so we found that the 4 cyl GM HEI distributors had the same shaft diameter & about 4 times the cap size (same as the V6 & V8 caps--just with 4 electrodes)--the set-up allowed us to use over 55,000 volts & was more than enough to fire under the compression -- tests showed that we were peaking at about 42,000 volts at 6,000 rpm. With the engines well developed (head work-bored to 2001cc & major carburation) a five port engine was putting out almost 150 HP---This was twenty years ago on a engine design that started in the 50's with 45 HP in the 1500cc guise. Like I said--just shows what can be done--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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