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more EA82T max out information


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62 replies to this topic

#26 MorganM

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 04:09 PM

I would....but I DID take out 2000 a while back to do up the RX...but i ended up spending only 1200 on it...as the rest went to other things....then I paid that off in short order.

Then...took out 3k...purchased another RX, paid off some things...and had the $ to buy and fix that DL wagon I had, and then fix the turbo wagon's engine and stock up on suby parts. Now im paying that off...so its not like I can jsut go get another loan now.

Maybe its time to sell some of that stuff and fund this project? I had 5 cars for the longest time. Never enough money or parts to do what I wanted with all of them. Having one toy vehicle to focus on makes it much more affordable right off the bat :) I sold off my others so I could focus and fund my GL wagon.

#27 Subarutex

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 04:14 PM

I have faith. I'm progressing down the same path as you, we will get there.

I've had countless people tell me to do an EJ conversion. Why waste money on rebuilding an EA82T, when you could put that money to an EJ swap. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it. At this point, i've acquired enough info to do the swap, which I will do, to some car, a couple years down the road. I'm thinking of an XT with a nice ole' front mount on it feeding a UTEC'd EJ20G. Of course, by that time I hope i'll be at the level to just burn money away.

My RX will stay EA82 powered. It will be fast. It will handle.

Good luck Will, keep me posted.

#28 calebz

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 04:36 PM

I got 115 :brow:.


You have 111

#29 mAJJJORD

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 09:23 AM

Woah, settle down skeeters.

this is an interesting thread, I too have an ea82T'd RX turbo, (in aus) , running a Jap import gen2 engine, microtech aftermarket ECU (sequential fire), GT lib RHB5 turbo feeding a front mount intercooler, custom headers (crossover pipe, exh manifold if u like) , and the usual big exh, running about 14psi.

all up these mods have cost me about 1500d australian plus 1000 for the ECU that was allready installed (so thats probably about 1500 or so equivilent US dollars, from what i can gather,

as for power, well ill find out in a few days when i hit the 4WD dyno, but its been running like this for about 14 months i spose, with a few upgrades in that time, if i can make somewhere over 140hp at all 4 wheels ill be happy. all i do know is beating standard/ near standard WRXs is no problem, ive had duels with several. , all comes down to power-weight obviously.


Now more to the topic , theres no way an EJ20 is going in the car, as being a genuine RX i want to keep it in genuine RX drivetrain, which in this case includes a jap constant box, i may modifiy the box for a viscous center, but thats it.

the last thing i want to do is hack things up squeezing an EJ in there , even tho it would be the sensible option to increase power further, when this engine dies ill be taking the strenthend rebuild option instead.

lets also not forget the EJ is around 40KG heavier... if you care about handling, thats a lot of KG to have hanging over the front wheels. I know what if feels like in a brumby , and its not good.


the thing to remember is.. if you understand the limits of the engine, and are happy to sit within them, theres no need to go off doing engine transplants.
Ive owned an EJ20TT powered brumby in the past, and ot be honest due to the rx being factory powered, i enjoy beating WRXs more in it, than i did in the brumby (which when i owned it had similar if not less power to the RX .. tho things have changed since its new owner ;) ) ,

Now of course i want to raise the bar, but as the author of the thread pretty acuratly stated, 250engine hp is prettymuch the reliable limit.. the critical factor being the relativly weak pistons.. not the crank and rods as some ppl suggest, while they too have a limit, its more than 250hp. the 3 bearing crank simply does not have the same negative effect as on an inline engine. and as mentioned, the reasons for the EJs 5 bearing system is a lot more than just higher power handling.. allows a longer crank required for the bigger engines , and lowers NVH levels, a must for refinement expectations of today.
if anything the Rods pose more of a limitation in this area.. but they are quite short so it would be intersting if someone has some input here.


One of the real problems ive determined as stated is the old head design, and this is why the key is to run a mixture on the rich side @ high boost, and be able to accuratly retard timing as boost increases. this is why an aftermarket computer is a must. its also , combined with good intercooling, the reason my 100k mile+ motor is still alive, even tho 1 piston has been damaged (another story), at least 15k mile ago. It dosnt detonate, the cool and relativly rich mixture keeps valve temps and piston temps down. flow is another matter, and its been dicussed by someone who knows what theyre talking about (unlike me) allready.

the other problem that relates, is again, being an older design there are no piston oil squirters in the rods, another exuse for piston temps going skyward.. with pistons following , in time.

so the moral of the story is, the reliable limit is not set in concrete, its dependand on how you go about achiving the power . hence why 250hp is not an unrealistic figure.

when rebuild time comes soon, ill certainly let you know which options i choose, but one will definatly be forged pistons.

#30 WJM

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 10:02 AM

Yeah, what ^HE^ said. :banana:

#31 rallyruss

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 10:30 AM

ok so Will is crazy.:drunk:

now I want to get back to this head stud issue. I have attempted to aquire quality head studs with no sucess. they are 11mm by 1.25 pitch. not a really common size. Now if they are made by someone great.

I know ARP does not have the proper size because I already ordered the wrong ones from them.

now it may be a pain but if you were to helicoil the case to a 7/16 thread size. you might be able to run an ARP stud.

I also researched getting a set of JE forged pistions at one time. Unfortunately I recieved two completely different quotes on the two different times I spoke with them. the second person (with the much higher price) was not verry helpfull at all.

now my second idea was to find an existing pistion for another aplication with the same or similar dimensions in bore size and pin diameter. It would have to have the same pin retainer design as well.

I am not evin going to start throwing guesses out there with all the HP issues. the only thing I can say is that the actual dollar amount for a properly built high HP motor will be verry high. 2000$ will not get you too far.

#32 Hondasucks

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 12:54 PM

a stock crx will smoke a boosted subaru. our cars are slow!


Not smoke... Faster, yes, but I've never been SMOKED by a CRX.. I've smoked many a Civic... The only CRX that beat me was an Si, and those are like 160 HP, and he didn't; beat me by much.

#33 garner

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 03:28 PM

Ive owned an EJ20TT powered brumby in the past, and ot be honest due to the rx being factory powered, i enjoy beating WRXs more in it, than i did in the brumby (which when i owned it had similar if not less power to the RX .. tho things have changed since its new owner ;) ) ,


Welcome mAJJJORD,

The brumby you refer to wouldn't by any chance be the British racing green one as seen on this page: http://members.optus...com.au/~kerrtw/ ?

If so, did you build it and if so please email me, I've got a load of questions relating mostly to the suspension.

END OF HIJACK

Will, GO FOR IT, I think the EA82T is a great platform, not without it's limitations but still a great project motor

garner

#34 mAJJJORD

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 07:33 PM

Welcome mAJJJORD,

The brumby you refer to wouldn't by any chance be the British racing green one as seen on this page: http://members.optus...com.au/~kerrtw/ ?

If so, did you build it and if so please email me, I've got a load of questions relating mostly to the suspension.

END OF HIJACK

Will, GO FOR IT, I think the EA82T is a great platform, not without it's limitations but still a great project motor

garner



Nah Garner, I wish!. that thing is gorgeous, and quick too :) he was on a subaru cruise with us earlier in the year, I dont actually know him in person . but the author of the following thread MAY know him , and remember his username on that forum , so Ill ask him if your want.

there is more pics of that green one here: http://www.ausubaru....viewtopic&t=509 , along with the blue beaten up brumby i used to own, (minus the big spoiler) , and my RX , the white 1 with the front mount.

cheers

#35 nutt7

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 01:42 AM

Not smoke... Faster, yes, but I've never been SMOKED by a CRX.. I've smoked many a Civic... The only CRX that beat me was an Si, and those are like 160 HP, and he didn't; beat me by much.


no stock crx is 160hp. the crx si is like 120hp, single cam no vtec. the 99-00 civic si is the only civic in the states with the doch vtec with 160hp...many many many civics and crx's have jdm motors though, so i bet it had one of those, and they can be quick, my vtec motor ran a 14.5 with intake/exhaust...so its no shame to lose to one in an older soob

Will, im rootin for you! Ill wait till you blow a few motors and when you find a sweet setup.............I will copy you :) :drunk:

#36 Vegablade

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 02:51 AM

you guys are all nuts. not really but it will take me a week to let this all soak in also WJM lets see some pics of your no were near stock GL-10 you talk so much about it lets see it. as for me im going to just drive my car and enjoy the subaru experience.

#37 JWX

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 03:12 PM

do a search vegablade pics are all over the board of it

#38 Warp3

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 04:32 PM

I've said it once and I'll say it again...without all those crazy Aussies and Canadians out there, I don't know how the Subaru tuning world would survive. LOL :D I mean, most of the suspension parts I've installed (or am about to install) on my Impreza were made in Australia (DMS, Whiteline and Noltec...though the DMSs are going to be replaced with a Ground Control/Koni setup soon) as were the brake pads I have to install on the RX (Axxis Metalmasters). Plus, the Backyard Boys forums (which I haven't visited again in a while) is where I first read stories of EA82Ts boosted to 18psi quite regularly, with some going even higher!

#39 bushbasher

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 07:26 PM

Canadians? We're big subaru tuners? :confused:

#40 JWX

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 08:15 PM

Actually i probably dont even have 111. Just sayin that they came stock with 115... and im sure there are some that still push 100. lol sorry i was off 4 horsepower... i didnt think anyone would notice nor effin care.

dude, the 85-86 EA-82Ts only came with 111 so you only had 111 stock.

#41 subyrally

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 08:21 PM

i know that exhuast is important to the performance of the turbo engine, but i was kinda chewed out for trying to go for 3" catback om my rx, once i get my td04 and intercooler installed. my friend wa saying that no suby does well with three inch pipes after the downpipe. i really dont care what he says, i am using the 3" catback i have for it cause, well, its free. but with the new ,larger turbo and the wrx intercooler and new custom header. will i need to worry about using the three inch catback? i dont think it will be a problem, but i would like a few opinions on the subject.

#42 Warp3

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 09:02 PM

The bigger the downstream tubing, the better the turbo likes it. N/A engines need smaller tubing to keep the exhaust gas velocity up (not for back pressure as is so commonly claimed...high velocity with low back pressure is ideal for N/A engines, unfortunately changing piping size changes both). Turbos, however, do not AND they still dislike backpressure, so bigger is definitely better.

Now, note I said DOWNSTREAM...the header and up-pipe tubing CAN be too large and hurt performance. Smaller tubing = higher exhaust gas velocity = more power to spool the turbo quicker (but tubing that is too small can't flow enough also hurting power so you have to pick a size that works for both).

Anything over 3 inches would likely be unnecessary overkill for the power range the EA82T is capable of (with stock internals anyway), but the 2.5 - 3" range should be quite right. As a point of reference, most of the turbo kits for the 2.5RS that include exhaust, use 3" exhaust tubing and they make like typically 230-250hp from 5-8lbs of boost. (Also, IIRC, the early 90s Legacy Turbo came with 2.5" tubing from the factory and made around 160 or so hp and manufacturers generally tend to undersize their tubing rather than oversize it.)

#43 Warp3

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 09:08 PM

Canadians? We're big subaru tuners? :confused:


I guess this is more true for the newer cars than the older ones (unless the exhaust group buy goes well and we can get them to start making more EA parts).

For example:
- One of the earliest turbo kits for the Impreza was the very popular Minnam Racing turbo kit.
- TWE is in Canada and has quite the selection of stuff for the EJ25...pistons, cams, high-lift valvetrain, headers, etc. (and hopefully some exhaust parts for the EA81/82Ts if we can get that group buy on header/uppipes and downpipes going...hint, hint ;) )
- The only remaining rebuilder for the DMS coilovers in North America is located in Canada (DMS North America...part of Lachute Subaru).

#44 subyrally

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 12:50 AM

thanks warp, you helped clear that up for me. my friend drives a wrx and swears up and down that if you put on anything larger that 2.5" past the downpipe, the car wont run as well. he says that his beatup old mazda 323(regular 323, not gtx) would stomp the rx into the ground if i used the 3" catback on it. i think that on some points he knows what he is talking about, but others he exagerates and makes things up.

#45 JonOfScio

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 07:33 AM

what I need to know, is CFM flow and PSI charecteristics of the RHB5 turbo.
also, those with the turbos, flowing as much as they can from it (ie: 14, 15, 16? psi) what RPM boost comes in and what size tubing, ect. they've been using.

yeah, WJM is pretty insane. But, we all need something to stir up the pot once in a while. I've had some pretty hilarious ideas... not realizing the complexity of how much $$$ it would take to get 200hp from an EA81, or how hard it would be to supercharge one.

But...

Onto my EJ18TT. Est. Hp with stock wastegates: 250 flywheel. But who says I need stock wastegate pressure at 7.5 per turbo? hehe. This will run me less than $1500, and I already have some of the pieces. It's all in the works.

#46 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 11:36 AM

I guess this is more true for the newer cars than the older ones (unless the exhaust group buy goes well and we can get them to start making more EA parts).

For example:
- One of the earliest turbo kits for the Impreza was the very popular Minnam Racing turbo kit.
- TWE is in Canada and has quite the selection of stuff for the EJ25...pistons, cams, high-lift valvetrain, headers, etc. (and hopefully some exhaust parts for the EA81/82Ts if we can get that group buy on header/uppipes and downpipes going...hint, hint ;) )
- The only remaining rebuilder for the DMS coilovers in North America is located in Canada (DMS North America...part of Lachute Subaru).



You forgot one of the most important tuning items of all: beer. In fact, Big Rock brewing in Calgary (TWE's home city) makes some very fine brews. So does my local brewery, Nelson Brewing Company .

As for the exhaust tubing diameter, 2.5" will still give you faster spool-up than 3" on a smaller motor. 3" may give more ultimate power above 6500 - 7000 rpm, though. The fact is, you still need to keep exhaust velocity up on a full street exhaust (yes, on a turbo). If you had a short race DP exiting right under the passenger side door, then a 3" might be better than 2", but otherwise you still need something to help keep the velocity up. Actually, 2.75" might be a good compromise, but good luck finding 2.75" pipe.

quote (from a company that has been specializing in turbo performance for a long time):
"Most cars don’t even flow enough to take advantage of a 3" pipe at 20 psi and 7500 rpm. What happens when you put too large a diameter pipe on your car is that the off boost performance suffers terribly. A turbo car has to make boost before it make power. You also have to drive your car normally most of the time. This concept does not apply to a dedicated track car that just stays on boost all the time so don’t call and yell at me about it.

Too large a diameter pipe does not have any exhaust velocity or extractor effect until very high rpm. Removing all the backpressure from a system will allow the turbo to breathe more efficiently once it is on boost, but it will generally delay the turbo from coming on boost. The Catch-22 here is that the engine off boost needs a certain amount of backpressure to develop the exhaust flow that will allow the Turbo to spool-up. You need to compromise with an exhaust size that will allow the car to run correctly over its entire RPM range."

#47 All_talk

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 12:33 PM

what I need to know, is CFM flow and PSI charecteristics of the RHB5 turbo.

Proper compressor maps have never been released for the RHB5, I did map approximate EA82T flows on the available map in this thread (second page).

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22146&highlight=td04+map

Just a note, if you look at the map for the TD04 (first post), you’ll notice its very well matched to the stock EA82T and has a lot more room to grow. Also consider that a low mileage WRX take off TD04 will cost you less that a rebuilt RHB5.

Gary

#48 sheppie62

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 02:24 PM

Bmw 's 1.5 liter turbo "Formula One" engine from the late 80's to early 90's put out 1200Hp !! So our 20% larger 1.8's should be able to get 1728Hp. Maybe that's not a good example, so I made a mathmatical adjustment 178.8hp. Leading Edge Performance a local dune buggy engine builder gets 550 reliable hp from their turbo EJ 2.5's. I would think 250-300 should be obtainable with stock internals, that is to the crankshaft so probably 200 to the rear wheels. But I am no expert.

#49 oddcomp

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 03:12 PM

hmmm i think best while under the same but cheaper mistress as hodaka rider :)

anyone who has read my posts should be able to tell that..
oh wait.. waht was the original thread topic??? ??
ooops sorry

#50 sheppie62

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Posted 28 October 2004 - 12:12 PM

Oddcomp, I have no Idea what you said, but did see the word "Hodaka" . I recently acquired a "Combat Wobat 125cc". That is an old dirt bike for those who have never heard of them before. I am going to race in "vintage motocross races" with it.




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