New member - need help on 97 O/Back

[Hawkeye4]

Hello - LOTS of questions...

 

 

I am happy to finally join this forum. I have owned many Subaru's over the years:

 

 

1983 2 door Hardtop, 5-speed

 

1986 Wagon automatic

 

1984 4x4 Hatch, 4-speed

 

1993 Legacy L, auto, AWD

 

 

Now we have a 1997 Outback. I bought it from a Subaru mechanic. It has 220,000 miles, which really doesn't bother me. The heads have been rebuilt, new timing belts, oil pump, water pump...

 

 

1. I have had the check engine light come on a couple times, and found it to be the knock sensor. I also had a bad rattle from the exhaust shield, and fixed that (I'm thinking they might be related).

 

 

2. On occasion, the car will be hard to start. It's obvious that it is getting flooded due to the black smoke when started and sometimes a gassy smell.

 

 

3. On one start, the engine raced up to about 3000 RPM for a few seconds. Other times, the idle seems to be a little high, and the car wants to lurch forward.

 

 

I have a hard time blaming all of this on the knock sensor (I have reset the computer, too). The car has newer platinum plugs, and newer wires, plus a clean air filter.

 

 

4. Finally, this engine makes a more pronounced ticking noise than I've ever heard in a Subaru. It's almost like hearing two hard wooden sticks rapping, if that makes sense. It goes away after 15-20 mins of driving. Is this valve/lifters? Do the solid lifters make that noise? Or is this "piston-slap"? By the way, what does piston-slap sound like??

 

 

I will add that this Subaru gets the best MPG and performance that I have seen in a Subaru, so I think the engine must be in fairly good working order.

 

Also, the recall items have been addressed, i.e., the throttle body issue.

 

 

Thanks!!!

[Hawkeye4]

One more thing - this car doesn't have keyless entry, but I want to add it. This is a long shot, but might there already be a module plugged in under the dash? If so, what would it look like?

I added aftermarket keyless entry to my 1993 Legacy and it was a pain - I had to install an actuator in the drivers door. From what I hear, installing keyless entry (and possibly remote start) will be a lot easier on this one.

I have read that this model has a notorious problem with the head gaskets. I assume that mine will be OK now. Any other pointers that anyone would like to add?

[Commuter]

I too have a 97 OB, 250k miles now.

 

1) No knock sensor troubles to date. No rattling heat shields either, but I have seen some "strategically placed" screws jammed into mine, probably before I got the car.

 

2) No hard starting. I can't comment.

 

3) Idle ok on mine. I know that my idle will jump up on start up if I have left the A/C on.

 

4) I'm on my second engine (head gaskets, then conrod bearing failure). The first had some piston slap noise (and it might have actually been bearing noise). I've never noticed too much tappet noise. Still, these are not exactly quiet engines. My second engine is noticably quieter than the first.

 

Noises are difficult, especially to describe. To me, piston slap is duller, more hollow, more "wood" sounding. Tappet/lifter noise is more "metallic" sounding.

 

5) Keyless entry. I looked into this too, but as I recall, they only started pre-wiring the cars for it in 98. It was going to be $400 or $500 Canadian for the dealer to add it to my car. For similar money, I went and got a Viper alarm/remote start/keyless entry system. It works fine. One thing I wish it had was the "one click, unlock driver's door, 2 clicks, unlock all" feature. All doors lock or unlock with the key fob. I'm not even sure which way the factory ones work for this year. (I think the Limited models had keyless entry.) I had the electronics place install the Viper. 3 hours of their time, or probably 3 days of mine!

 

Good luck.

 

Commuter

[Hawkeye4]

Thanks a bunch!

 

I see that there is a product called Auto-Rx that may be worth trying. Since the heads were just rebuilt, I doubt the valves are out of adjustment.

 

Is piston-slap serious? Does that indicate a worn piston (I assume)? Would piston slap noise dimish like mine does after about 15 minutes?

 

I wonder if I have a bad 02 sensor, but the computer isn't reading it yet. But I don't want to go spend $100 on one (or two) if it's not the problem. There must be some sensor problem causing the flooding.

 

Also, with the engine racing, it does sound like the throttle body (recall) problem, but I have this documented as repaired.

 

I didn't see anything under the dash that looked like keyless entry, but I want to be sure before I go get an aftermarket unit.

[Commuter]

I wonder if I have a bad 02 sensor, but the computer isn't reading it yet. But I don't want to go spend $100 on one (or two) if it's not the problem. There must be some sensor problem causing the flooding.

I think it would have to be really bad to cause flooding. I changed mine last year. It was not throwing a CEL, but I had the "carbon" issue returning and I couldn't get rid of it. They told me the O2 sensor was "slow", but ok. Given the age and miles and reports from others, I decided to change it. My carbon issue went (slowly) away and the milage (few percent) picked back up again.

 

Commuter

[Commuter]

Is piston-slap serious? Does that indicate a worn piston (I assume)? Would piston slap noise dimish like mine does after about 15 minutes?.

Some report just a few minutes of noise, others longer. The key point being that it should be "gone" once the engine has warmed up. If it is not, then you may have some longer term issues. It is not necessarily a worn piston, or anything really. It is a case of design (short piston skirts), material (aluminum, expansion clearances, etc) and possibly manufacturing (reports of clearance tolerances not being held to the levels required), etc. Subarus aren't the only ones to do this.

 

It seems that 'cold' piston slap doesn't really do any damage to speak of. Just annoying, and as Subaru put it in some technical bulletin, "does not meet customer expectations...".

 

Commuter