Hocrest Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 I recently started autocrossing my Legacy. It is a 97 sedan with the 4eat and about 195K. I started just for fun but, surprisingly I am halfway competive in "H" stock class. :cool: I still have a way to go to improve my skills, I figure I can gain up some time with practice and events under my belt. But I also need some advice to pick up any little bits of power and still remain in stock class. I was thinking "snorkalectomy" but not sure if that is legal?? I'm getting about all the traction I need on my Michelin street tires with 40k off of them. I am really not having any problems breaking loose. Maybe a slight understeer, but mostly I think I need just a little more power to pull out of the turns better. I have been running the auto in 1st gear, only having to pop into 2nd during one or two spots on the track. My plugs/wires have about 75k on them. I guess that replacing them may help. Any suggestions?? Any other tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 I don't wanna suggest this if it's cheating, I don't know the SCCA rules real well. But if you find a junked 90-94 Legacy with air suspension, snag the swaybars off it. They have the thickest swaybars of any Legacy I know of. I don't know what the specs on 97 Legacy bars are, but the air ride Legacy has a 19mm front bar and an 18mm rear bar. And trust me, 2mm makes a lot of difference. I got my Legacy to perform as well as it did on the Dragon with a Turbo rear swaybar Again, I don't know if that's legal to stay in your class... Then of course, try a set of really good tires. Falken Azenis perhaps. Maybe get a set of steelies and put those tires on em, then you'll have a set just for autoXing. And yeah, change those plugs and wires... That is a bit too many miles on the same set Good luck Dave and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hocrest Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 I don't wanna suggest this if it's cheating, I don't know the SCCA rules real well. But if you find a junked 90-94 Legacy with air suspension, snag the swaybars off it. They have the thickest swaybars of any Legacy I know of. Thanks for the tip on the Bars. I would have to double check, but I'm pretty sure I can make any changes I want to the front bar, but the rear bar must remain stock size/composition. I don't think I want to get a set of tires just for AX, but I'll probably replace the standard all-season tires I have now with a set of perfomance since I have a separate set of rims/tires for snow. Now where do I get the power??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I'm getting about all the traction I need on my Michelin street tires with 40k off of them. I am really not having any problems breaking loose. Maybe a slight understeer, but mostly I think I need just a little more power to pull out of the turns better. Any other tips? You can always use more grip, but on the surfaces you're running on (Hello Frackville!) going to a more traditional autocross tire would only eat away at your wallet. The biggest thing is really just good traction and being smooth. Try playing with the tire pressures to get better grip. Going up in pressure is usually the way to go, but at some point you will hit a wall. FWIW, When is the next autocross up there? Alos, next weekend is Duryea Hillclimb in Reading, and my brother and I will out in our Impreza Rally Car. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hocrest Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 You can always use more grip, but on the surfaces you're running on (Hello Frackville!) going to a more traditional autocross tire would only eat away at your wallet. The biggest thing is really just good traction and being smooth. Try playing with the tire pressures to get better grip. Going up in pressure is usually the way to go, but at some point you will hit a wall. FWIW, When is the next autocross up there? Alos, next weekend is Duryea Hillclimb in Reading, and my brother and I will out in our Impreza Rally Car. Keith Autocross in Frackville???? I've been going down to Penn National in Hershey. Ben"ebob" got me involved and that is where he runs. hmmm... I'll probably be looking you up in Reading, good luck if I don't see you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 could you and Keith both get more specific.....I would love to watch some of this stuff but I don't know where to go.... Dave: did you try going to an underdrive pulley set, colder thermostat, maybe swap a manual rack in there and lose the PS??? What about taking the acc. drive belts off totally when racing (my dad did this back in the day at maple grove) the only advantage you have over him is that you will still have your water pump working as opposed to him with nothing... Just tossing out ideas... Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp3 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Some of the things you can change and stay in Stock are: - Front swaybar (and the accompanying endlinks) - Struts (incl. adjustable ones) - Any wheel that is stock sized in both width and diameter and is no more than +-0.25" from stock (wheel sizes that were *factory* options are good as well) - Any DOT-approved tire that fits on the aforementioned wheels - Exhaust (catback only...cats and headers must remain stock...if they go bad and must be replaced, cats must be "OE-type" not high-flow versions) - Any replacement air filter in the stock box (no other intake mods are legal) Here is a decent copy of the SCCA Stock rules: http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/stock.html (Keep in mind this is an *unofficial* source, however, the text is taken straight from the rulebook and stays decently up-to-date.) I would recommend tires and struts first. In addition, an upgraded front swaybar will help reduce body roll and improve turn-in but may also induce a bit more understeer at the limit (though that "limit" will still typically be a bit higher than before due to the reduced body roll). Upgraded front swaybar endlinks will improve turn-in and make the bar respond more quickly and more predictably (compared to the stock crappy plastic endlinks). R-compound tires (Hoosier A3S04, Kumho Ecsta V710, Kumho Victoracer V700, Kumho Ecsta V700, etc.) will make the most pronounced difference, though making this change necessitates a 2nd set of wheels to race on and requires swapping tires at an event (it will make your car loads faster, though). If you do this and plan to run primarily in local events, I'd recommend full-tread Victoracers. They are quite cheap (for R-compounds anyway), last quite well, and are decently competitive (especially on a local level). I'm running Victoracers on my 2.5RS in SM and even with a codriver at some events (including one event that clocked a total of 17 runs (between 2 drivers) on the car and would have been closer to 20 if I hadn't fried the clutch... ) and they are holding up very well and should at least last me the rest of the season (including the upcoming 24-hour autocross we have locally) if not more. If you do not wish to swap tires/buy R-compounds, then I'd recommend perhaps jumping to STS. You can do much more suspension work there (struts, springs, camber plates, even real coilovers if you wish), and you can run any wheel size up to 7.5" wide with up to 225 wide tires, but the class runs on "street" tires, so tire-swapping is unnecessary unless you run national-level events (the rule for STS is 140+ treadlife tires, and the Falken Azenis RS (not the ST115) is definitely recommended here...not only is it one of the best STS-legal tires, but it also happens to be one of the cheapest). The site I quoted above has the Street Touring (STS/STX) rules on there as well, if you wish to go that route. However, as always, the #1 improvement you can make is the DRIVER! Whether it be a school put on by your local region or one of the invaluable Evolution Performance Driving schools (http://www.autocross.com/evolution), an autocross school will make more difference in times than ANY modification to the car itself could ever do. I've heard several former Evolution students note that it's the best $200 mod they've ever bought (the school is more like $225 now, IIRC). I've been to one of the EVO Phase I schools myself (I won it as a door prize in one of last year's SouthEast Divisional events) and I am definitely planning to go back again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp3 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Dave: did you try going to an underdrive pulley set Not legal in Stock...It is legal in STS, STX or FSP, though. colder thermostat Legal in Stock, but I'm not sure it would really do all that much. maybe swap a manual rack in there and lose the PS??? Only legal in Stock if power steering was an option on the trim level of car he has. Otherwise, he would jump to FSP (using the update/backdate rule). What about taking the acc. drive belts off totally when racing (my dad did this back in the day at maple grove) Not legal in Stock...the A/C system (or just the belt driving it) can be removed in STS, STX or FSP, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 hey Dave.....go up to another class! As for the pulley how about a lightened one that is stock diamater. matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp3 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 STS is a very fun class. That's the class I started autocrossing in (since I had a rear swaybar and short shifter already before my first event) and it's a great class for street driven, lightly modded cars. No need to change tires at the event (while still being competitive) and you can do a good bit of suspension work and still stay in STS. Plus there is always a decent turnout since STS is a very popular class, so you have a good assortment of people to benchmark your times against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp3 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 As for the pulley how about a lightened one that is stock diamater. You are still modifying the pulley, though, so it's not stock legal. Same legality as the underdrive pulleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 NEPA has been running up in the back parking lot of the Frackville mall for few years now. Next event is sunday the 22nd. http://www.nepa-scca.com/solo2schedule.html Duryea Hillclimb is a Solo 1 event (Copetition preped cars with roll bars and what not) and is held in Downtown Reading. Race starts at the base of Duryea Drive, races up pas the Pagoda, and finishes at the Fire Tower on Skyline drive. http://www.pahillclimb.org/Courses/Reading.htm Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hocrest Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 Keith, Any idea if the Blue Mountain region is going to be having any events? Their web site is still talking about the 2003 season... Did you participate at Duryea? How'd you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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