WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Ok guys, Ive done all the figuring, all the pricing...all the drooling too. $6000. Thats what it should, in theory, take to make the EA82T Leone be faster than the 2004 STi line. Spec C included. In stright line? YES. In twistys? YES. On track? YES. Impossible? NO. Reliability? The one factor unknown, as this is UNTESTED in real life to my knowledge. How? Stright: Rods, pistons, crank, intake manifold, throttle body, complete exhaust system, turbo, MS+DIS, 92/93/94 fuel, Gen 4 heads, light stuff on each end of the crank, clutch+pres. plate, viscous center diff, LSD front+rear, STi engine+trans mounts, good thick rad+excellent oil cooling setup, Mobil 1 synth oil, IC with good flow/cooling characteristics and a few small thingies here and there. Twistys: 15x8 or larger wheels with good rubber, Two pot up front and slotted rotors, carbotech pads/rotors, Motul 5.1 fluid, stainless steel lines, 5x100 hubs or something, poly bushings everywhere, Koni Coil over, OR the GR2+250 LB spings front and my coil over rear OR GR2 rear with 8x300 springs back there, camber/caster plates front, low'n'stiff (or firm like now). Track: As stated above. Reliability: R&D and testing will give answers to Q's. Why dont I do this? I don have 6G's laying around. This can be done, it WILL be done. There is the formula, +/- a few small things, if anyone wants to do it, there it is. I WILL be doing this. Oh and for the record, IF you get 300 HP out of the EA82T in a Leone chassis....you will be leaving an STi in the dust due to weight differences. You onyl need 250 +/- 5 to be even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 WJM=Insane? True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauregaardhooligan Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Sic'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorManzImpreza Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 WJM=INSANE? VERY MOFO true lol but so are all of us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMeatWagon Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Man im lovin it... soon enough though someones gonna start takin a crap on what u just said. IGNORE IT. I bet their typing right now. Oh well man this is gonna be sick when done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northguy Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Best of luck with it, but by then, there will be a new gold standard to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAJJJORD Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 thereis nothing difficult or unrealistic about making getting the straight line perfomance of a stock STi, the handling will be the real killer.. u might want to consider in your list a conversion to Viscous center diff on the AWD box, it will understeer a lot otherwise , even with the stiffer suspension. comparisons to the sti should be kept on the track too, it'l never handle as well on the bumpy stuff , certianly with none of the compsure of an sti, but a good comprimse.. and good value.. for sure! especially as a track car. Jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 we could always use my rx as the test bed for this experiment, ill be accepting donations. first though, i need to get the car to start again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mons72 Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 cool. i like what i see. i'm gonna do something like this, with some other parts and things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 :slobber: :slobber: who was it that said a picture is worth 1000 words? Well there is 5000 words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyruss Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 ok lets bench race:burnout: I, like you cannot go to the extremes that you sugest. but it is fun to think about. well I get most of the mods. but how do you plan to do the brake up grade? that is one thing I would really like to know. I hate the stock brakes. you give me leads I will do it. the rest is up to the rest of you freaks with blown flat fours. I have enough troubles just trying to get a reasonable WRX inter cooler to complete the TDO4 swap. yeah thats a real one too. It will happen. another thing that maybey you can adress else where is your alignment? dampers? did you not get a camber adjustment mod done? I must have missed it but am interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkx Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 we could always use my rx as the test bed for this experiment, ill be accepting donations. heh, if it were only so easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAJJJORD Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 brakes upgrade.. easy, i coudla sworn you were all (mostly ) in the US.. XT6/impreza hybrid 5 lug converison! if i was in the us id have it done by now.. its only we dont have xt6s here :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 brakes upgrade.. easy, i coudla sworn you were all (mostly ) in the US.. XT6/impreza hybrid 5 lug converison! if i was in the us id have it done by now.. its only we dont have xt6s here :/ Not even XT6. Carbotech slotted rotors, ive got stainless lines sitting here waiting to go on, motul 5.1 and carbotech bobcat pads. There is the brake upgrade. BIG brake kit? TBA. I did say I was gonna Viscous center diff the trans... rallyruss: what is it that you want to know about my suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAJJJORD Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 sorry, i didnt see the centre diff part first time , i havent heard of that brake upgrade, dosn't exist over here, us poor aussies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Boy, I just love the inexperience of youth. First, you never really told us what mods you were doing to the engine to make it create 300hp. For instance, what type of cams are you using, what is the grind, lift and duration? What will the compression ratio be. Will you be using forged teflon coated pistons? What type of rods? Are you making any mods to the induction system, ie different turbo, injectors, reduced flow restictions. I personally would be very surprized if you spend only $6000 on the engine alone and got 300hp. I have never seen STi parts for a Leone (EA82 series) car, specially since STi wasn't really formed until 93. Next the suspension, do you really think for a minute that the EA82 type front suspension will out perform an EJ type just by increasing spring rates?? And the brakes, there are still a lot of unanswered questions there. I don't know of any four pot caliper that are front parking brake types, so are you even going to have a parking brake?? As for reliability, if you decide to race it, and I have no doubt that you will the first time some guy in a Honda pulls up along side of you, I'd give you less then 1000 miles before you have to replace something in the engine. You are approximately tripling the current horsepower, that engine was never designed for that. Believe me, I'm not trying to discouage you, I just want you to think a little harder about what you are saying. Are you really sure that you what to spend all that money just to prove a point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Boy, I just love the inexperience of youth. Yes, I am 20. First, you never really told us what mods you were doing to the engine to make it create 300hp. For instance, what type of cams are you using, what is the grind, lift and duration? What will the compression ratio be. Will you be using forged teflon coated pistons? What type of rods? Are you making any mods to the induction system, ie different turbo, injectors, reduced flow restictions. The cams will be the 272 Delta cams. possibly the 260's. Thos specs have been posted else where on the board. Pistons: 8.0:1~8.5:1 compression...some kind of forged chrome molly alloy...have not picked out for sure what I am going to use. Same on the rods. All of that plus the crank will be cryo treated and the crank will be knife edged and lightened up. VF22 turbo - monster port/polish on both sides, more efficient turbine/compressor wheels and a twin scrool housing, I've not picked out injectors, but i know I will need a 550CC+ range. The flow restrictions? TWE header, and a TBE, open intake, spyder manifold with an XT6 throttlebody, Gen 4 heads and I'll clean up the ports on both sides. I personally would be very surprized if you spend only $6000 on the engine alone and got 300hp. I will spend only 3~4G's on the engine alone. I have never seen STi parts for a Leone (EA82 series) car, specially since STi wasn't really formed until 93. Correct. There are no STi parts for the Leone series. Next the suspension, do you really think for a minute that the EA82 type front suspension will out perform an EJ type just by increasing spring rates?? Simply putting on higher rates w/shorter springs does do quite a bit for the car. But there is more to it. camber/caster plates, bushings, tires/wheels, toe adjustments....the Impreza suspension is not far from the design of the Leone. the major differences I see is the control arm and the 5 lug stuff. I see ways to make it just as good. And the brakes, there are still a lot of unanswered questions there. I don't know of any four pot caliper that are front parking brake types, so are you even going to have a parking brake?? I would not have a use for the front park brake, so why have it? I will convert to rear. what are the unanswered questions? As for reliability, if you decide to race it, and I have no doubt that you will the first time some guy in a Honda pulls up along side of you, I'd give you less then 1000 miles before you have to replace something in the engine. You are approximately tripling the current horsepower, that engine was never designed for that. I am not some rice'er punk-rump roast. the only time street racing is appropriate...is never. While it is true I do put some rice'ers in their place from time to time, I never do it under circumstances that could possibly endanger anyone outside of the two vehicles. As for reliability? Sure, it might not last as long as a stock EA82T. But if i drive the STi engine like I am going to drive the EA82T stock or even the "Ultimate" EA82T...all things being equal, I imagine both will last close to the same amount of time. Granted a stock EJ22E will outlast all of those engines. Believe me, I'm not trying to discouage you, I just want you to think a little harder about what you are saying. Ok. Done. Are you really sure that you what to spend all that money just to prove a point? It is not to prove a point. This is for my own enjoyment. While I do love the STi and the entire EJ line, I am not going to spend $34G's on a brand new STi....and then spend even more to mod the crap out of it. Why would i mod it? To go to the SCCA Nationals to win Street Mod, thats why. My ultimate aim is to build this GL-10 to be a VERY potent track car, and to be able to win Divisionals for SM, and possibly place high at the nationals. If i were gonna do it just to prove a point, then it would not be of any use at all. Any more Q's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp3 Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 My ultimate aim is to build this GL-10 to be a VERY potent track car, and to be able to win Divisionals for SM, and possibly place high at the nationals. Ok, first you shoot for trophying in a local event (the CCR 24-hour autocross) and (without having even done that yet) you are now aiming for divisional/national level autocross? Let's how you do at the 24-hour first, before you aim that high. I agree the EA82T-based L-series can be made very quick, but I'm not so sure about nationals in SM quick. One thing to remember about autocross is that a wide torque band is more important than peak power. How else do you think I outrun the SM WRXs? Sure some of it is driving and some is weight, but a notable chunk of that is hitting the gas and getting instant power...my EJ25 car is powering out of the turn, while the turbos on their EJ20s are still trying to spool. All the power in the world won't help if you can't power out of a 90-degree turn in low 2nd gear. I'm just afraid that the mods necessary to get the EA82T to 250+ hp are simply going to kill the low end and make serious lag (it is a low compression 1.8 liter, after all). To be perfectly honest, you may very well be faster at autocross by actually making less power and keeping your spool rate fast and your torque curve as flat as possible. Also, remember that suspension and tires will do FAR more for autocross than sheer power. If you don't believe me, just watch Geoff Zimmer's FSP Rabbit at the next event...there is a reason he has taken FTD at local events with that car, and I guarantee it's not making that much power at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 what you mean that sti came out in '93, it was formed in 1989 when subaru started the legacy rally car. they even had a sti model released in japan in 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Ok, first you shoot for trophying in a local event (the CCR 24-hour autocross) and (without having even done that yet) you are now aiming for divisional/national level autocross? Let's how you do at the 24-hour first, before you aim that high. I agree the EA82T-based L-series can be made very quick, but I'm not so sure about nationals in SM quick. One thing to remember about autocross is that a wide torque band is more important than peak power. How else do you think I outrun the SM WRXs? Sure some of it is driving and some is weight, but a notable chunk of that is hitting the gas and getting instant power...my EJ25 car is powering out of the turn, while the turbos on their EJ20s are still trying to spool. All the power in the world won't help if you can't power out of a 90-degree turn in low 2nd gear. I'm just afraid that the mods necessary to get the EA82T to 250+ hp are simply going to kill the low end and make serious lag (it is a low compression 1.8 liter, after all). To be perfectly honest, you may very well be faster at autocross by actually making less power and keeping your spool rate fast and your torque curve as flat as possible. Also, remember that suspension and tires will do FAR more for autocross than sheer power. If you don't believe me, just watch Geoff Zimmer's FSP Rabbit at the next event...there is a reason he has taken FTD at local events with that car, and I guarantee it's not making that much power at all. yeah yeah yeah, im insane. i know that I do need instant or near instant power in autocross. I am aiming to get a HUGE compromise in peak power and instant power. I aim to have a flat TQ/HP curve once i get past 3000....seems that even on that ULTRA TIGHT curse in VA, there was ONE spot where I was at 2800, the corner before the finnish was 1st gear. I think that if I would have been on street tires, then i woudl ahve been all over the mid 2k rpm range....since ive got R compunds, i think that unless its a stupidly tight course, I can make that powerband happen on autocross. BIG WIDE STICKY tires are certinly a BIG BIG playa in autox..... And I HATE LAG. I HATE Vtech hondas...... vrroooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmm....*vtech starts* VRROM! *shift*.....vrrrrooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm.......*VT S* VROOM! *shift* Um...no. Me=Anti-rice BIG TIME! Honda=Rice (90% of the time) WJM's Ultimate EA82T= vvrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *shift* vvVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EDIT: And i hope to do well in the 24HRS if Steven ever finds a friggin site. The only mods i can think of that i would have by then are the new front struts and *MAYBE* the big delta cams...*MAYBE* Otherwise, it will be as you seen it yesterday. Oh, i might swap out the rear springs again and adjust on the coilovers some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 On another note...i have HEAVILY considered an N/A Build.....10.5~11:1 compression, cryoed rods+crank+pistons, turbo OE HG's, spyder+XT6 TB, header+exhaust....MS+DIS... Then again, i have seriously considered a Carbed Build on a MPFI+Spyder engine, and running one of my RX shells, FWD in SM or some prepared class. Another EDIT: For those who dont believe me...I HAVE considered an EJ build as well. If i ever do an EJ...it would be an EJ22G/EJ257 N/A build...10:1 compression, EJ257 HGs with the 2.5RS DOHC heads with some pretty nasty cams.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 heh chock me into the insane class aswell i mean look waht i ahve been trying to do lemme know if i can help in some way wjm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Ya know, it just occurred to me that I seem to do everything bass-ackwards from what "everyone else" would do/think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 heh chock me into the insane class aswell i mean look waht i ahve been trying to do lemme know if i can help in some way wjm DIS BABY!!! When you get the DIS stuff you've got tuned in well...Id like to see a parts list and then i'll get it and start playin wid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Boy, I just love the inexperience of youth. First, you never really told us what mods you were doing to the engine to make it create 300hp. For instance, what type of cams are you using, what is the grind, lift and duration? What will the compression ratio be. Will you be using forged teflon coated pistons? What type of rods? Are you making any mods to the induction system, ie different turbo, injectors, reduced flow restictions. I personally would be very surprized if you spend only $6000 on the engine alone and got 300hp. I have never seen STi parts for a Leone (EA82 series) car, specially since STi wasn't really formed until 93. Next the suspension, do you really think for a minute that the EA82 type front suspension will out perform an EJ type just by increasing spring rates?? And the brakes, there are still a lot of unanswered questions there. I don't know of any four pot caliper that are front parking brake types, so are you even going to have a parking brake?? As for reliability, if you decide to race it, and I have no doubt that you will the first time some guy in a Honda pulls up along side of you, I'd give you less then 1000 miles before you have to replace something in the engine. You are approximately tripling the current horsepower, that engine was never designed for that. Believe me, I'm not trying to discouage you, I just want you to think a little harder about what you are saying. Are you really sure that you what to spend all that money just to prove a point? True, true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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