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Ticking EJ20 Quad cam single turbo


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8 replies to this topic

#1 boilerman

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 06:53 PM

Having read the tech advice heres one from the land of ingenius kiwi land!
The single turbo on these engines is supplied with oil from the end of the right hand side head immediatly below where the turbo is fitted to the up pipe exhaust.As this oil supply has already fed 8 camshaft bearing along with 8 cam lifters(hydraulic) this supply is now further depleted by a oil greedy turbo!
Re routing the oil supply to the turbo from where it leaves the oil pump by installing a 1/8 tee under the oil pressure switch and then using an oil rated 100 psi flexible hose directly to the turbo has all but stopped the ticking on my two engines.By installing an up graded oil pump(more pressure) the ticking has ceased entirely,Power has returned and smooth running has also returned!
This due to a more even oil distribution and also feeding that most oil hungry turbo as soon as possible with oil at (direct) pressure.
I guess you could alsop cool this oil prior to re entry to the turbo to further enhance the lubrication of the turbo.
New to this site,Great info,USA prices!! WOW,glad im a kiwi.Can get a 2nd hand eng/auto gearbox for$nz1400 here! Thats about 700 of your dollars!!

#2 Dr. RX

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 07:42 PM

WOW,glad im a kiwi.Can get a 2nd hand eng/auto gearbox for$nz1400 here! Thats about 700 of your dollars!!

Well let's see, the last three EJ20Gs that I purchased had auto trannies with them, and I paid $300 each for them, I guess that would be $NZ600. Boy I'm glad I'm a Yank!!!

#3 yeah-right

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 04:25 AM

I too am from New Zealand and I have to say it seems your automatic tranmission "specialists" over there in the US don't know ****. Duty Solenoid C causing binding on tight turns on AWD Legacys is common knowledge over here - even the local corner garage knows about it. But there are so many posts regarding this subject with so many people saying that the shops they took the car to had no idea what was causing it. It makes me wonder if they've even been trained on auto's! And US$500 to replace it??? That's about NZ$770. But it costs less than NZ$200 to have the job done here.

I have a Kiwi friend who lived in Chicago & now is in Hudson who says the same thing. I'm not trying to be an ******* - but it just seems like this is the norm - paying big bucks for expertise that isn't. Seems that in the US people won't go beyond their niche of training. I know that's a gross generalisation - but you get the idea.

Anyone got any idea why this might be? Is the automotive trade over regulated there or something? Or is it the cost of public liability insurance or something? I'd really like to know why the huge differences.

#4 Wayne Boncyk

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 12:51 PM

Well, I have a few thoughts regarding this particular issue, as I have a '96 Legacy which now has the torque bind problem. One thing to take into consideration is that Subaru is a "niche market" auto here in the States, with a very small overall share of the US car market. Further, Subes tend to be relatively popular in only a few regions of the country (mostly where the advantages of AWD are appreciated -- in snowy, mountainous terrain). As a result, there is much more money to be made in servicing more popular brands (Honda, Toyota, and those omnipresent service moneymakers, General Motors cars! :rolleyes:). Thus, Subaru parts are not generally stocked by the parts discounters and what the expert Sube mechanic cannot earn by servicing in volume, they need to make up in unit cost. Thus, Sube parts and servicing cost more than other brands here in the US. And most general brand-independent shops have almost never dealt with the peculiarities of Subaru engineering, so when presented with a problem like Torque-bind, they are clueless.

Web sites such as this one help to keep we owners of these unique vehicles as well informed, or better informed, than many mechanics (except for the guys who specialize in Subes). And, when we need the specialists' expertise, we can find 'em here!

#5 NorthWet

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 01:14 PM

Getting kind-of back on topic...
I thought that Subaru deliberately reduced oil pressure to the turbo, at least on older models, using a restrictor orifice in the head. And I think that their rationalization had to do with providing the turbo bearing with the pressure and flow rate that best suited it. (As opposed to reducing pressure/flow in order to ensure that upper-end still gets enough lubrication.)

Any thoughts? If my understanding is false, I would love to change where/how my turbo gets its lube (and cooling, for that matter).

#6 boilerman

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 02:45 AM

Thanks for getting this thread back on track!!

Factory fitted lubrication is provided to the turbo from the rear of the cylinder head on the right hand side of the vehicle.the connection to the turbo and head is made with a 1/8 steel pipe similar to brake line,secured at both ends with a "bango" connector,ie ahollow bolt and eye arrangement often used in hydraulic connectors 2 copper washers are also used in this setup.
The oil restriction you refer to is provided by the 'hollow bolt" at the turbo end which has a 2.5mm hole in it.
However i do not believe that you could "over feed" the turbo wth nice cool oil...it is doing upwards of 20,000 rpm at times..and its pretty hot despite the water cooling....i am sure that what i have done has in fact balanced the flow across both heads instead of asking for oil from one head at the end of an oil gallery...this is ok for assembly/reliability/cost reasons....given that the expected life is 100,000 km....this does just fine.....my cars have done twice that mileage.....and only now is this occurring..i guess its just wear and tear......alls i know is that by using a bit of thought/common sense..a new hi pressure oil pump and a few fittings on a 200km ticking engine it no longer ticks...thats 2 engines!!...Knowing a subbie it will prob do another 200 thou yet!!...cant speak for EAseries but my EJ20's are running like new!!!

Getting kind-of back on topic...
I thought that Subaru deliberately reduced oil pressure to the turbo, at least on older models, using a restrictor orifice in the head. And I think that their rationalization had to do with providing the turbo bearing with the pressure and flow rate that best suited it. (As opposed to reducing pressure/flow in order to ensure that upper-end still gets enough lubrication.)

Any thoughts? If my understanding is false, I would love to change where/how my turbo gets its lube (and cooling, for that matter).



#7 yeah-right

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 04:19 AM

lol - sorry for hijacking your thread!

#8 NorthWet

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 12:30 PM

The doc that I have seen on the EA82T say that there is a restrictor orifice internal to the head (or block, I forget). The banjo joints are usually used in applications that require turning a fluid path 90 degrees with minimal restriction and maximum flow. Incidentally, any time airflow (thinkin' intake air?) needs to be turned 90 degrees it is recommended that the flow run into a chamber that is essentially an annulus ring with a side exit. "Elbows" su... er, stink.)

You CAN overfeed a turbo with oil, as many of the older hotrodders found out. Well ok, it really isn't so much a feed issue as it is a drain issue. Try pinching off the drain tube and see how long the turbo lasts; I'll hold my breath and count. That blue smoke you see was (were?) your seals. The turbos in our size range normally spin upwards of 100k rpm (often abused to 130k+ rpm by overboosters). That whips the oil into something of a froth, which is why the drain line is not a nice, small 1/8"-ish line also. There is some point of flow/pressure that exceeds the drainline's capacity to rid the turbo of now-useless oil.

I DO AGREE that dedicated feed lines would be better than some manufacturer-convenient, hand-me-down, second-best oil (and coolant!!!) supplies. Your method should also ensures a quicker supply of lube to the turbo on startup.

Now, if we could continue oil and coolant flow for a while after engine shutdown...

#9 boilerman

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Posted 14 September 2004 - 04:03 PM

Hear what you saying about the drain back of oil...given that the return drops straight back to the sump through a 19mmID pipe you would need some serious pressure to overcome the drain through a 2.5mm hole..pressure cold= 35psi and hot =28 psi at idle.

Have heard that you can get an electric water pump for these engines (EJ series) along with a cover cap and idler assembly to replace the standard water pump....From where i do not know....would be easy enough to wire it to run on after engine shut down on either time or temperature control

The doc that I have seen on the EA82T say that there is a restrictor orifice internal to the head (or block, I forget). The banjo joints are usually used in applications that require turning a fluid path 90 degrees with minimal restriction and maximum flow. Incidentally, any time airflow (thinkin' intake air?) needs to be turned 90 degrees it is recommended that the flow run into a chamber that is essentially an annulus ring with a side exit. "Elbows" su... er, stink.)

You CAN overfeed a turbo with oil, as many of the older hotrodders found out. Well ok, it really isn't so much a feed issue as it is a drain issue. Try pinching off the drain tube and see how long the turbo lasts; I'll hold my breath and count. That blue smoke you see was (were?) your seals. The turbos in our size range normally spin upwards of 100k rpm (often abused to 130k+ rpm by overboosters). That whips the oil into something of a froth, which is why the drain line is not a nice, small 1/8"-ish line also. There is some point of flow/pressure that exceeds the drainline's capacity to rid the turbo of now-useless oil.

I DO AGREE that dedicated feed lines would be better than some manufacturer-convenient, hand-me-down, second-best oil (and coolant!!!) supplies. Your method should also ensures a quicker supply of lube to the turbo on startup.

Now, if we could continue oil and coolant flow for a while after engine shutdown...






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