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Doing 2.5L Phase I head gasket job myself...
Posted 20 March 2003 - 12:34 PM
I have a Haynes manual, which seems to have all of the info I will need. I do however have some questions.
1. The book tells me to REMOVE the cams. Is this really necessary?
2. I am planning on also replacing the water pump while I am in there. Should I also do the cam seals and main seal?
3. Anything else that I should replace while I am at it? Of course I am going to also replace the intake and exhaust gaskets.
I did the timing belt and accessory belts at 100k. I was planning on putting those back on.
Posted 20 March 2003 - 12:55 PM
Posted 20 March 2003 - 01:37 PM
I would certainly do the seals. All of the. Is easy and cheap. Have a look at your oilpump and change the o-ring and tighten the screws.
Posted 20 March 2003 - 06:13 PM
I think the likelihood of the second gasket failing at nearly the same time is high. Plus, presumably the newer gasket is better.
Did that. Oil pump o-ring. Will do. Thanks!!
Anyone had oil pump troubles on the 2.5? I have planned on keeping the car to 250k miles.
Posted 20 March 2003 - 07:49 PM
Posted 20 March 2003 - 09:30 PM
Once you have the cams off, you need to keep the solid lifters in the same sequence as well.
Take the head off intact, replace the valve cover gaskets if you want, but don't get into the innards if you don't have to.
Posted 21 March 2003 - 08:23 AM
Posted 21 March 2003 - 12:20 PM
Posted 21 March 2003 - 03:30 PM
there are many that can knock this job out in 45 minutes, just depends on how dilligently you work...
vice versa sometimes applys too...where i used to work, shop manuals would give something like 1 hours time to do something that took me half a day to do, i.e. early 80s accord where you had to pull the goddamn axle to get the alternator out.
Posted 21 March 2003 - 07:43 PM
Wayd's right about pulling all this stuff to get to the head bolts. (Got my engines mixed up.)
If you've never done this job before, and you get it done in 10 hours, you're either on speed, or a genius!
Posted 21 March 2003 - 08:12 PM
I spent $299.40 at Van Bortel today. The parts man was extremely helpful and pointed out some other seals I had forgotten. I will list the items with part numbers and price if someone is interested.
I have never been a speed demon with repair jobs. It seems like I break a bolt due to WNY rust or have to improvise a tool or spend two hours carefully cleaning gasket surfaces etc.
The book mentions cam assembly lube for reassembly. I have regular assembly lube, can I use that? I won't be messing with the valve adjustments. I will look into having the dealer adjust them in the near future. I assume it will cost $200-$300.
My father in law runs a large corporate machine shop and has kindly offered to take me to his shop tomorrow afternoon to check the heads for warpage on a granite block. :-) It did get pretty hot. He said that a granite block is far superior to the machinists straight edge that is suggested in the Haynes manual. Actually, he asked me what I wanted the straight edge for, after I told him. He would probably offer to mill them if they are warped. A stroke of luck perhaps.
Posted 22 March 2003 - 12:16 AM
Posted 22 March 2003 - 05:20 AM
So we all can check if we have all the parts when it happens to us.
I always seem to mis out one part when doeing a job.
Posted 22 March 2003 - 08:46 AM
Be careful with the valve cover gaskets. They may be different on your car. Take your VIN with you to the dealer.
This list is taken from the dealer invoice. I have modified some of the descriptions to make them more meaningful.
Qty_ _ _ _ Part Number_ _ _ _ Description_ _ _ _ Price Each
12_ _ _ _ 13271AA051_ _ _ _ Wash Rocker CV_ _ _ _ $2.67
4_ _ _ _ 13293AA040_ _ _ _ Sprk Plg Hole Gsk_ _ _ _ $7.95
1_ _ _ _ 13270AA110_ _ _ _ Gasket-Rocker RH_ _ _ _ $9.95
1 _ _ _ _ 13272AA110_ _ _ _ Gasket-Rocker LH_ _ _ _ $9.95
1 _ _ _ _ 10991AA000_ _ _ _ Oil Pump O-Ring_ _ _ _ $1.90
1_ _ _ _ 806733030_ _ _ _ Front Main Seal_ _ _ _ $6.42
1 _ _ _ _ 13594AA011_ _ _ _ Slng-Belt Cove_ _ _ _ $13.93
2 _ _ _ _ 44022AA020_ _ _ _ Gasket Exhaust_ _ _ _ $6.93
2 _ _ _ _ 14035AA281_ _ _ _ Gasket Intake_ _ _ _ $5.15
2 _ _ _ _ 11044AA610_ _ _ _ Gskt Cylinder_ _ _ _ $31.58
1 _ _ _ _ 21111AA110_ _ _ _ Water Pump_ _ _ _ $83.95
1 _ _ _ _ 21114AA051_ _ _ _ Gasket Water P_ _ _ _ $2.55
$279.81 plus tax. I haven't completed the job yet so I can't verify this list as complete.
Sorry bout the formatting, tried HTML with a table but it was a PITA.
Edit: Intake Gasket Part Number
Posted 23 March 2003 - 09:58 AM
Everything was going as planned until I tried to remove the cam sprockets. The Haynes manual suggests using a pair of channel locks to hold the sprocket when removing the bolt. The bolt seems to be really tight. I broke off about half of the hexagonal portion of the upper right cam sprocket. Does the dealer use something a little better than channel locks or was I unlucky/careless? I am on my way to Sears now to get a 60mm or 2 3/8" socket.
I would add to the parts list a oil filler neck o-ring.
Posted 23 March 2003 - 01:45 PM
So I developed some ideas:
Best one is as follows:
Use an old timing belt. Cut it. Wrap one end around the sprocket (counter clockwise) so when tension is applied it will sort off grap itself firm (I don't know how to say this in English. Do you speak Dutch?)
The other end you have to attach to a fixed point away form the sprocket. You could wrap it around the cranck sprocket. Then the camsprocket should be firm enough to loosen.
I used a strap wrench. But that didn't work as I hoped.
So I was lucky and found a bunch of Subaru tools on Ebay (Germany) and bought them. Among them is the famous Subaru double hex tool that fixes both sprockets in their position (picture on Endwrench.com).
Also you could wedge a wooden wedge between both sprockets. I a way that when applying force it would 'wedge' itself even more.
I both cases I would be carefull and I haven't tried them myself.
Posted 23 March 2003 - 04:11 PM
Posted 23 March 2003 - 08:48 PM
Does anyone know offhand what size 12 point metric socket is required for head bolt removal on a Phase I 2.5?
I also realized that I didn't get the cam seals from the dealer, even though I asked for them. I also want the valve cover breather gaskets and dipstick o-rings. Perhaps I will throw together a good list at the end.
When I loosened the right side cam caps oil squirted out like it was still under pressure, after two days. Is that normal? Does it show that things are still in good shape?
I am having a little trouble bringing myself to remove that perfectly leak free oil pump from the engine to replace the o-ring. Should I really do it?
Posted 23 March 2003 - 09:17 PM
No problem welding regular steel to tool steel? What kind of welder did you use?
About the oil squirting. Is it possible there are springs in the hydraulic lifters explaining the residual oil pressure?
Posted 23 March 2003 - 10:03 PM
I don't know about the steel. I borrowed a Lincoln 100 MIG welder using bottled gas, not sure what particular mix. I ground the chrome off of the socket with an angle grinder. I ground clean spots on the angle iron. Five short beads.
It has solid lifters. Polished to a beautiful mirror finish.
Posted 24 March 2003 - 10:45 AM
At least check the valve clearance before you put the valve covers on. If you have tight valves you will want to have them adjusted sooner rather than later.
Posted 24 March 2003 - 12:03 PM
Should things really change that much with regard to valve clearance if everything is put back exactly like it was?
The sprocket is special order and $98.82. I am really pissed at those Haynes manual authors for suggesting such an absurd thing. I never would have tried it if it weren't in that book.
Should get the heads off tonight.
Posted 26 March 2003 - 11:22 AM
Posted 26 March 2003 - 11:55 AM
The blasted Haynes manual suggests that I lift the engine for removing the heads. The only way I see that as necessary is if the head bolts are <em>really</em> long.
I will try it without lifting the engine first. I started soaking the engine mount bolts yesterday just in case.
If I ever do this again, I will remove the engine all together. It seems as if I have removed just about everything anyway, and it would be much easier on an engine stand.
I am on my way to remove the heads.
Posted 26 March 2003 - 12:32 PM
When using the strap wrench, I did manage to crack the back of the belt cover right at the timing mark. I would recommend placing another mark further back on the cover.
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