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Upper Engine Clean?


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23 replies to this topic

#1 4Sugars

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 05:34 AM

Hi all, I have read quite a bit of good feedback on Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner. I want to use this product however I do not know where to put it can some one please point to where it should be sprayed.
http://nz.msnusers.c...Photo&PhotoID=6
:confused: Thanks very much!

#2 99obw

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 08:10 AM

I have never used the Subaru cleaner, but I have used seafoam which is presumably similar. If the product you are using is an aerosol the procedure will be different.

With the car warmed up, I connected a small hose to the ported vacuum on the throttle body, then put the other end of the hose into a can of seafoam. I started the car, then as I opened the throttle, the seafoam would be drawn into the intake. It's difficult not to stall the car using this method. After half a can was drawn in, I shut the car off. I then disconnected the hose, reconnected the hose that was supposed to be there, let it sit for about 15 minutes, then started it up and let the smoke begin. The oil must then be changed.

MIL illumination is common during this procedure due to misfires.

#3 shortlid

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 03:04 PM

I have never used the Subaru cleaner, but I have used seafoam which is presumably similar. If the product you are using is an aerosol the procedure will be different.


What is the current consensus on using aerosol Throttle Body Cleaner on Soobs? I know I asked this question on ultimatesubaru.org like two years ago and the over whelming answer was NO!! That Subaru had some sort of special coating on the throat of the TB. And you would remove it if you used TB cleaner on it?

#4 shortlid

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 06:56 PM

Well, I guess by lack of replies that means people are using spray TB cleaner on there Soob's now?? I got the Seafoam 99obw, which vacuum line did you use? The high one off the EGR valve or the lowwer one off some sort of switch??

#5 99obw

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 09:32 PM

I used the ported vacuum line, which on the throttle body of our '99 outback is the vacuum line nearest the gasket on the top of the throttle body. May be different or not even there on yours, I don't know. I think if you have EGR you should have it. Ported vacuum is off at idle and pulls more and more as the throttle is opened. Pull this line and run a hose from the throttle body into the can of seafoam. With the car idling it will run great, but as you open the throttle it will start to stuble. Be careful or it will die, draw half the can in nice and easy. Other than that just follow the directions. I like to change the oil afterwards as seafoam and the crap it's cleaning out are getting into your oil.

#6 shortlid

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 09:57 PM

Really, it got your oil dirty just after you did this? I have this vacuum line I will just pull it off and put it into the can of Seafoam.

#7 99obw

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 10:00 PM

Presumably it does, but I choose to do this just prior to my scheduled oil changes, so it's not an issue. I don't like the thought of anything thinning my oil either, I'm one of these nuts that likes a rugged viscosity.

#8 shortlid

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 09:33 AM

Just sucked a 1/4 can of Seafoam upper engine cleaner through one of the vacuum lines on the top of the TB on my '98 Legacy L ,EJ22, 4EAT, and 142k on the clock. It was idling rough and hunting for idle before and had NEVER been cleaned Posted Image. WOW what a diff. it idles better than new now!! did not change teh oil seemed not to affect it?

#9 shimonmor

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 11:57 AM

Here is a photo which may help with 99obw's description to help you find the vacuum port.

#10 99obw

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 12:17 PM

That pic is very helpful, thanks, but you are using a different vacuum port than I was describing. I used the one on the throttle body nearest the gasket, visible behind the hose in your pic going into the seafoam can.

#11 frag

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 01:08 PM

That pic is very helpful, thanks, but you are using a different vacuum port than I was describing. I used the one on the throttle body nearest the gasket, visible behind the hose in your pic going into the seafoam can.


I think you both did something very different. It would be interesting, if possible. to discuss and compare that difference. 99obw used a vacuum port upstream from the throttle valve (no vac at idle and more and more as the engine is reved). Shimonmor used a vacuum port downstream from the throttle valve (max vac at idle and less and less as the engine is reved).
Are those two choices equal or is one preferable to the other?

#12 shimonmor

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 01:53 PM

It would be interesting, if possible. to discuss and compare that difference. 99obw used a vacuum port upstream from the throttle valve (no vac at idle and more and more as the engine is reved). Shimonmor used a vacuum port downstream from the throttle valve (max vac at idle and less and less as the engine is reved).
Are those two choices equal or is one preferable to the other?


I'm not sure if I have a right answer but after reading that there was a concern over the coating of the TB...I thought why take a chance? Although with the port I used the TB won't get cleaned. At idle, the port I used had some pretty good vacuum and having the hose off the port affected the idle a little but it still ran ok. I put the hose in the can and it sucked about 1/3 of the can before it died which I figured was enough. It did smoke pretty good for about 5 minutes after starting up again.

I think the can of Seafoam recommended using the PCV valve or any vacuum port which would spread the cleaner to all cylinders.

#13 blitz

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 05:22 PM

Just sucked a 1/4 can of Seafoam upper engine cleaner through one of the vacuum lines on the top of the TB on my '98 Legacy... SNIP
SNIP ...did not change teh oil seemed not to affect it?

Definitely change the oil. Seafoam breaks down the buffers, and afterward the oil goes downhill fairly fast. You don't want run that oil for too long.

It's best to do the top-end clean when coming up to an oil change so you won't have to waste a crankcase full of good oil.

#14 blitz

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 05:41 PM

99obw used a vacuum port upstream from the throttle valve (no vac at idle and more and more as the engine is reved). Shimonmor used a vacuum port downstream from the throttle valve (max vac at idle and less and less as the engine is reved).
Are those two choices equal or is one preferable to the other?

Frag, ported vacuum and manifold vacuum are the same, except ported vacuum doesn't come in until just off-idle (do to the location of the port just slightly ahead of the throttle blade). The old distributor vacuum advance mechanisms were activated by ported vacuum. I'm not sure what it's used for on a modern vehicle, apparently something tho. :confused:

The "higher vacuum the more the engine is revved" you speak of is actually "venturi" vacuum. Only found on a carburetor though (no venturis on an EFI/TB).

#15 99obw

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 06:42 PM

I'm not sure what it's used for on a modern vehicle, apparently something tho. :confused:


It goes to the backpressure transducer (BPT) for controlling the EGR valve.

#16 Smpol19

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:38 AM

I've always used the brake booster vacume, anything wrong with that?

#17 Gnuman

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 04:58 AM

I've always used the brake booster vacume, anything wrong with that?


Only problem I can see is that it's off to one side, so one side of the engine will get more thaan the other side. Putting it in at the TB spreads it more evenly.

#18 Tiny Clark

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 08:57 AM

Definitely change the oil. Seafoam breaks down the buffers, and afterward the oil goes downhill fairly fast. You don't want run that oil for too long.

It's best to do the top-end clean when coming up to an oil change so you won't have to waste a crankcase full of good oil.


Blitz,

Seafoam's homepage doesn't say anything about changing the oil right away, even tho they mention using it in the crancase:
When Added to Crankcase (Oil)

  • Frees sticky lifters and rings
  • Increases R.P.M.'s vacuum and compression
  • Cleans dirty parts
  • Removes moisture
  • Cleans PCV valve systems
One pint treats 10 quarts of oil (avg. 1 1/2 ounce per quart).
I would think if this broke down the oil, it would be mentioned. But just like any other cleaner, it'd be a good idea to drain the oil and get all the crap outta the system.

#19 blitz

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 11:24 AM

Blitz,

Seafoam's homepage doesn't say anything about changing the oil right away, even tho they mention using it in the crancase:
When Added to Crankcase (Oil)

  • Frees sticky lifters and rings
  • Increases R.P.M.'s vacuum and compression
  • Cleans dirty parts
  • Removes moisture
  • Cleans PCV valve systems
One pint treats 10 quarts of oil (avg. 1 1/2 ounce per quart).
I would think if this broke down the oil, it would be mentioned. But just like any other cleaner, it'd be a good idea to drain the oil and get all the crap outta the system.

The label on the package of ice cream doesn't say anything about making you fat, etc.

There are those who would advise against adding ketone solvents to the crankcase (yours truly). I'd use Seafoam to clean the PCV valve, but I'd remove it from the engine, etc.

Ask yourself: what would the average car owner do?, then: what would the smart Subaru owner do?

#20 frag

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:55 PM

Frag, ported vacuum and manifold vacuum are the same, except ported vacuum doesn't come in until just off-idle (do to the location of the port just slightly ahead of the throttle blade). The old distributor vacuum advance mechanisms were activated by ported vacuum. I'm not sure what it's used for on a modern vehicle, apparently something tho. :confused:

The "higher vacuum the more the engine is revved" you speak of is actually "venturi" vacuum. Only found on a carburetor though (no venturis on an EFI/TB).


Thanks for the correction about ported vacuum (vac ports upstream of the throttle valve).
Considering this, would it not be possible to conclude that ported vac is the safest way of sucking in upper cyl cleaning fluid? It does'nt start working until you open the throttle and you keep a constant control on how much vac you want and how much liquid you want to get inside the manifold at all time. Less chance also of hydro locking the cylinders.

#21 blitz

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 03:28 PM

It might actually be a good thing to draw a little solvent through the ported port on account of the actual port opening tending to be rather small and prone to clogging.

#22 brus brother

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 01:10 AM

2000 LegacyGT - Dealer has recommended GM Upper engine cleaner to maybe cure ping. Does anyone have experience doing the Seafoam throttle body cleaner. I am concerned about the mention of TB coating being affected. Any pics of port to use appreciated.

#23 shortlid

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 07:53 AM

2000 LegacyGT - Dealer has recommended GM Upper engine cleaner to maybe cure ping. Does anyone have experience doing the Seafoam throttle body cleaner. I am concerned about the mention of TB coating being affected. Any pics of port to use appreciated.


I remember AWHILE back people on the board were saying don't clean teh TB with TB cleaner casue it will take the coating off. I asked about two years latter and the board acted like they have never said that, OH well. I have used Seafoam LIQUID in teh bottle sucked into inatke via vacuum. AND spray "Deep Creep" Seafoam on the Trodle plate in the TB on my '98 Legacy L wagon with 150k with NO problem, only a smoother idle as a result!!

#24 lach01

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 03:35 AM

Just to answer one of the early questions. The Subaru upper engine cleaner is an aerosol and the subaru dealer says that changing the oil isn't necessary (neither does the can).

A few other car manufacturers have started purchasing the subaru stuff also, apparently its meant to be about the best around.




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