Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Help, Timing issues!!


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 17 October 2004 - 03:43 PM

Ok, the huge job of replacing the timing belts, oil and water pumps continues. I also replaced the distrib. cap and rotor, which in hindsight was a mistake and here's why: after I got everything all together I cranked the engine over for the first time but it has a very hard time starting. It did run, but the timing is obviously way off. When I lined up the timing belts per all your GREAT advice, and the OK advice of my Hayne's manual, it all looked good and I even turned over the engine manually via the crank and then via the starter motor as well. Still everything seemed to line up, i.e. camshaft pulley tic marks, flywheel/bellhousing, etc. At least as well as can be expected from a visual inspection of plastic timing belt covers, etc. I'm kicking myself for trying to be diligent and replace the dist. cap and rotor b/c now perhaps I didn't get that put back together just right. Now I have two potential failure points: ignition timing and valve timing. Aaaghrghrgrgh:banghead: :banghead:

****Ok, so my question is, what are the symptoms of the timing belt (valve) timing being off a little bit? And the ignition timing (via the dist. cap)?
How do you guys suggest I proceed? This car MUST be put back together and running today. Please help.

#2 Subi81

Subi81

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,006 posts
  • Ventura, Ca

Posted 17 October 2004 - 05:22 PM

just put the old cap and rotor back on and see if that fixes anything. Cap and rotor are pretty straight forward jobs, I can't see how that could get messed up, my money is on the t belts.

As for checking them, you might want to take off the outer plastic covers so you can see if the marks are where they are supposed to be, ie one up one down, they have to be exact right on the notch, if one tooth off it is all for not. also check to see if the tension is acceptable, it might have been to lose and skipped on you, I made that mistake once. Good luck

#3 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 17 October 2004 - 05:50 PM

just put the old cap and rotor back on and see if that fixes anything. Cap and rotor are pretty straight forward jobs, I can't see how that could get messed up, my money is on the t belts.

As for checking them, you might want to take off the outer plastic covers so you can see if the marks are where they are supposed to be, ie one up one down, they have to be exact right on the notch, if one tooth off it is all for not. also check to see if the tension is acceptable, it might have been to lose and skipped on you, I made that mistake once. Good luck


Good input, I think you're right...the TBs have to be spot-on or the rest is a waste of time. I'll start there.

#4 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 17 October 2004 - 06:57 PM

I hope these links work...two pictures, one of the driver's side, one of the passenger's side cam shaft sprockets with timing belts all lined up with the tic marks on the timing belt covers. At least they look lined up to me.

http://www.imagestat...a0/f69af081.jpg



I'd love to eliminate my TB install as the culprit for my lousy timing. Lemme know what you think. :-\

On edit: had to re-configure pics. hope they work.

#5 stngllhm

stngllhm

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 366 posts
  • Casper

Posted 17 October 2004 - 07:02 PM

you did rotate the crank 360 degrees after putting the first belt on before you put on the secound belt

#6 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 17 October 2004 - 07:05 PM

you did rotate the crank 360 degrees after putting the first belt on before you put on the secound belt


Yup, and I just rechecked the belts and they look good. I tried to post pics above but no flippin' dice. Maybe I'll try setting up the pics later. I think it's time to tackle the ignition timing issue.

#7 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 18 October 2004 - 11:49 AM

:)

Yup, and I just rechecked the belts and they look good. I tried to post pics above but no flippin' dice. Maybe I'll try setting up the pics later. I think it's time to tackle the ignition timing issue.


Ok, so it's still not running right. I am 95% sure the T-belts are on lined up VERY close. It might be off a *tiny* bit, nowhere NEAR a whole tooth on the sprockets. I tried posting pics (above) but honestly I don't know if I could improve it any, period.

So as I stated above, Im off to try the ignition timing. CAN ANYONE POINT ME TO SOME GOOD IGN. TIMING ADJUSTMENT INSTRUCTIONS? I have the Haynes manual, but it's not super descriptive. Sorry guys, I've never adjusted the timing, and I tried searching but didn't find much. I am just a newbie mechanic who loves his Subaru. FWIW, this is kinda fun (if not frustrating at times). I'm kinda glad my mechanic is a frappin' thief -- it's driven me to do this work myself and dive into my beloved 88 EA82 4WD wagon! thanks for all your help and suggestions.

#8 Snowman

Snowman

    Midnight Passenger

  • Members
  • 3,538 posts
  • Haines

Posted 18 October 2004 - 12:49 PM

Did you get the plug wires back on correctly?

#9 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 18 October 2004 - 01:03 PM

Did you get the plug wires back on correctly?

Yup, checked and double checked the plug wires. I followed the manual, and actually, a thread on this board from awhile back to put those back on. I figure the only thing I could have screwed up is maybe when I reinstalled the new rotor it was off, MAYBE a few degrees. Is a few degrees enough to mess with the ign. timing? My symptoms are that it will run fine at higher RPMs, but it won't idle very well (will clunk around and then die) and I have a check engine light. The light is something I have yet to check into....how do I read the codes? :confused: Thanks everyone !

#10 sandman

sandman

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Pocatello

Posted 18 October 2004 - 03:21 PM

What procedure are you using to set the disty and then the timing? Sounds like its way too far advanced if its cranking hard. Your disty might be a tooth off.

#11 Snowman

Snowman

    Midnight Passenger

  • Members
  • 3,538 posts
  • Haines

Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:24 PM

Got a timing light? If so, just hook up to #1, point and shoot, and you can tell if the ignition timing is correct. If you don't have a light, just loosen the distributor and turn it back and fourth a little at a time and see where it runs better. If the old disty cap and rotor were REALLY old, maybe they weren't making contact soon enough, and rather than replacing them, the timing was just advanced farther. Now with a new set, the timing is way to far advanced? Just a thought.

#12 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:59 PM

Got a timing light? If so, just hook up to #1, point and shoot, and you can tell if the ignition timing is correct...


Still has to connect the "green connectors" before checking/setting timing, right???

#13 Snowman

Snowman

    Midnight Passenger

  • Members
  • 3,538 posts
  • Haines

Posted 18 October 2004 - 10:54 PM

Oh sorry, I forgot about the connectors (still pretty new to spfi).

#14 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 19 October 2004 - 12:31 PM

Oh sorry, I forgot about the connectors (still pretty new to spfi).

Can you give me a little more details on that, i.e. what are the green connectors?

#15 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 19 October 2004 - 03:01 PM

Can you give me a little more details on that, i.e. what are the green connectors?

I am the WRONG person to be answering this, as I only learned about these connectors a couple of months ago... but:

On at least the MFPI and (I have been told the SPFI; don't know about carb'd) there are two mating one-pin connectors that have to be connected in order to check/set initial timing. These connectors are supposed to be green, though their wires are different colors, and they are normally NOT connected.

On the MPFI, the connectors are under the steering wheel near the bottom of the trim pieces. I have heard that on the SPFI that they are in the engine compartment. I have also heard that on the SPFI you are supposed to "set the Idle Switch to "on"".

This exhuasts my lore/knowledge about these connectors. :-\

#16 Snowman

Snowman

    Midnight Passenger

  • Members
  • 3,538 posts
  • Haines

Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:42 PM

The green connectors are on the drivers side right in front of the firewall. It's really odvious which ones they are (heck, I figured it out without looking in the manual). Plugging them together puts the engine at base timing, which is what you want to set it at.

#17 Left_coast*9

Left_coast*9

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 183 posts
  • Bonney Lake

Posted 20 October 2004 - 10:45 AM

The green connectors are on the drivers side right in front of the firewall. It's really odvious which ones they are (heck, I figured it out without looking in the manual). Plugging them together puts the engine at base timing, which is what you want to set it at.

Ok, found the green connectors...so what's the procedure? Plug these together, fire up the beast and use the timing light as normal or ?? Or do I start the engine, then plug them together, then set timing? Prolly doesn't matter but thought I would ask.

Hey Northwet, how do you "set the idle switch to on"?

#18 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 20 October 2004 - 01:51 PM

Ok, found the green connectors...so what's the procedure? Plug these together, fire up the beast and use the timing light as normal or ?? Or do I start the engine, then plug them together, then set timing? Prolly doesn't matter but thought I would ask.

Hey Northwet, how do you "set the idle switch to on"?


As far as (I think) I know, you plug the connectors together, start the car and do the timing thing.

Regarding the idle switch, I put the info in quotes to denote it as "raw rumor". Sort of like raw data, but don't know if it is true... :grin: ) I have absolutely no idea beyond the words in the quote and that I have only heard it in connection with SPFI cars. BTW, I don't recall whether you said if your car was carb, SPFI, MPFI and/or turbo.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users