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EA82T Blues


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28 replies to this topic

#1 thealleyboy

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 07:30 PM

OK, here's the story...

Newly "partial" rebuilt EA82T. Built on a solid core. Professionally reconditioned gen1 heads. All new gaskets etc. New H20 pump, oil pump, etc. Nothing left to chance.

On initial test run, noticible loss of coolant. Upon further inspection, coolant discovered in crankcase.

Compression test indicated #1, 2, and 3 all "normal". #4 excpetionally high at 220psi.

Common sense would indicate a blown HG/cracked head - but not with readings ranging from 150-220psi. The high reading on #4 might suggest a valve issue, but does not explain the contaminated oil. My only conclusion is that it must be intake and/or turbo related.

Any creative theories? I'm stumped...

thanks, John






#2 Turbone

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 08:04 PM

The high compression in cyl #4 might be due to coolant in the cyl. I vote for a bad HG. How long has the engine been running?

#3 NorthWet

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 10:06 PM

The high compression in cyl #4 might be due to coolant in the cyl. I vote for a bad HG. How long has the engine been running?


My first thought, too.

#4 thealleyboy

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 07:30 AM

The high compression in cyl #4 might be due to coolant in the cyl. I vote for a bad HG. How long has the engine been running?


This was the initial run for this motor. It probably ran a total of 15 minutes before the h20 was discovered in the oil.

Coolant in #4 is a good theory that hadn't occured to me. There should be a way to verify this somehow. (drain oil?)

John



#5 WJM

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:01 AM


This was the initial run for this motor. It probably ran a total of 15 minutes before the h20 was discovered in the oil.

Coolant in #4 is a good theory that hadn't occured to me. There should be a way to verify this somehow. (drain oil?)

John


What kind of gaskets did you use? OE SUBARU ones I hope...

#6 thealleyboy

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 09:10 AM

What kind of gaskets did you use? OE SUBARU ones I hope...


We used NAPA gaskets. They seem to have a pretty good track record among Board members.

I'll definitely use OEM's next time around - if they are still available.

John

#7 calebz

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 09:31 AM



Coolant in #4 is a good theory that hadn't occured to me. There should be a way to verify this somehow. (drain oil?)

John


Disconnect the coil wire.. pull #4 spark plug.. crank motor and see what shoots out of the hole.

#8 oddcomp

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 09:36 AM

i say coolant in #4 and also leaking into one of the oil return holes in the headgasket
also since its a ea82t
then it has the daul intake ports so it could also be a intake gasket not sealing correctly on the #4 intake port and letting water in

#9 WJM

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 09:49 AM

We used NAPA gaskets. They seem to have a pretty good track record among Board members.

I'll definitely use OEM's next time around - if they are still available.

John


Personally I would NEVER use napa HGs on a turbo....but alas, I DID...but I did something totaly whack to them....so they have held so far.

W/out the whack mod the last turbo car i did with napa HGs blew up 4 days later. TOTAL HG failure.

Try oddcomps suggestion frist tho.

#10 thealleyboy

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 10:58 AM

Personally I would NEVER use napa HGs on a turbo....but alas, I DID...but I did something totaly whack to them....so they have held so far.

W/out the whack mod the last turbo car i did with napa HGs blew up 4 days later. TOTAL HG failure.

Try oddcomps suggestion frist tho.


I had no idea there were problems with the NAPA gaskets. Does this apply for all EA82's, or turbos only?

I'll definitley look at the possibility of a leaking intake gasket first. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the HG continues to hold compression, if it turns out that the "coolant in #4" theory is correct.

thanks, John



#11 NorthWet

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 11:37 AM

Disconnect the coil wire.. pull #4 spark plug.. crank motor and see what shoots out of the hole.


My thought, too. Don't be looking down the hole when you do it, though. :lol:

#12 thealleyboy

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 12:59 PM

My thought, too. Don't be looking down the hole when you do it, though. :lol:


I didn't have a helper last nite when I did the compression test, so I couldn't see if anything was spewing out of the motor. However, all the plugs were out of the cylinders as I did the test. I took two readings at each cylinder, and #4 was the last one I checked. I didn't notice anything coming out of the cylinder, or on the guage - after a total of 8 readings.

I'll try cranking it while a helper observes #4 tonite.

John

#13 86subaru

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 02:12 PM

if i was closer i would come over and help

#14 Cougar

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 02:36 PM

I have to agree with using only Subaru gaskets as the same thing happened to me using Flepro. Just another thought in case #4 turns out ok. The turbo has oil and water going to it.

#15 Turbone

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 02:47 PM

If the engine was turned over with no sparkplugs in, any fluids that might have been in there should be gone.
If you still get high readings on that cyl them maybe theres a problem with the valves. You may need to pull the valve cover to see if they are working correctly, that is if every other option is exhausted. But I would do that before pulling the head. There still has to be a reason there was H2O in the crankcase, which may be a gasket problem.

#16 thealleyboy

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 04:05 PM

I have to agree with using only Subaru gaskets as the same thing happened to me using Flepro. Just another thought in case #4 turns out ok. The turbo has oil and water going to it.


We thought about this, but couldn't determine where the two fluids would come into contact with one another.

Definitely worth a look...

John



#17 thealleyboy

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:20 PM

Some more testing...

All the cylinders now in healthy range (150-170 psi). Dry paper towel soaked up some coolant from #4 before the compresion test, so the excess fluid was probably responsible for the high initial reading.

So, it would be logical to rule out the HG at this point.

Tightened down the intake bolts. No reason to believe it was a leaky intake manifold, cause they were already nice and snug.

That leaves the turbo unit itself. I'm still not sure I understand how water and oil can be mixed at this stage. The lines are foolproof, so that would point to an internal failure of some sort. Is there any reason to suspect something like this?

John


#18 Turbone

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:30 PM

Change the oil and run the engine for a short time. See if theres coolant in the oil again.

#19 Cougar

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 10:34 PM

I have to wonder how the coolant got into the cylinder. This would mean the turbo is probably ok and the coolant leaked through the gasket somehow. Hopefully, another engine run test will be ok the next time.

As far as the turbo goes I think there is a shaft seal between the two fluids that can fail.

#20 WJM

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 02:00 AM

I have to wonder how the coolant got into the cylinder. This would mean the turbo is probably ok and the coolant leaked through the gasket somehow. Hopefully, another engine run test will be ok the next time.

As far as the turbo goes I think there is a shaft seal between the two fluids that can fail.


Maybe the head gaskets were not 'seated' before the cooling system came up to temp and some seeped thru.

From what i have heard...the HG's for SUBARUs, and I know the NAPA ones do this but not quite as good....the HG surface 'melts' at temp to bond on the head and block, creating a really well sealed enviorment. Thats why those heads are very sticky on the block and the stuff takes forever to get off the heads and block. Some kind of carbon/fiberglass/ or whatever...it is. Some kind of composite i think.

anyhow, i think those napa ones were slow to do so, and with the next heat cycle it should be done. Just leave the rad cap off until it gets warm and that t-stat opens...then put the cap on and see how it does...

thats my .015 cents....yes, 1.5 cents. lol

#21 oddcomp

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 09:17 AM

the oil and water chambers of the turbo are seperate
what your thinking of is the seals between the oil and the compressor or turbine side those can leak oil into the exhaust or intake if they are shot

#22 thealleyboy

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 10:28 AM

Maybe the head gaskets were not 'seated' before the cooling system came up to temp and some seeped thru.


This is the only theory that makes sense to me at this point - especially if the fluids do not come into contact inside the turbo.

I'll drain, refill and observe again tonite. Thanks for all the comments guys...

John

#23 thealleyboy

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:27 PM

I'm still struggling with this. It's sucking up too much coolant to be a "HG seating" problem. The water is going strait to the crankcase. Whatever leak there is, is pretty substantial.

The good compression is throwing me off, but there must be a logical way that h20 can enter into the oil, and still give healthy psi's.

The high compression on #4 may have been an abberation. Not sure it is related to coolant in the oil. If anything, this was probably an example of the new HG "seating" problem.

Whatever the problem is, it just about has to be something big and obvious.

Would definitely appreciate some more theories...

John






#24 Petersubaru

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 11:25 AM

I can only share my own experience...after pulling my hair out along with new head gaskets AGAIN...the fel pro manifold gaskets were changed to original subaru gaskets..what a difference in visual appearance ...took care of the leak...one of the fel-pro gaskets was slightly swollen and they fall apart if a drop of water gets on them before installation

[/QUOTE]

#25 WJM

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 12:53 PM

Yes, check the manifold gaskets. I did have one do that on a SPFI i had...PITA to drive with it like that, and it did water up the oil.

Check that.




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