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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Weapon-R is a-comin' off


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42 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_SmashPDX_*

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Posted 17 February 2002 - 03:48 PM

After a lot of consideration and planning I'm making it official: the Weapon-R is coming off of Huggy.

The thing looks cool, have to say, and this isn't going to be the last aftermarket intake for Huggy. But the Weapon-R doesn't mount quite right without help, and since all it's sucking in is hot engine bay air, I want something different.

For now what I've done is picked up the intake pipe assembly from the 97+ EJ22s, you know the one with the honkin' big box sitting just behind the intake plenum (the 95-96 Legacies don't have those). I figure having the air reservoir of the big box will take care of the 'bogging' issues that showed up after taking the original filter box out. I will probably also put the original filter box back, at least temporarily, but pull the snorkel out of the fender.

It'll be interesting to see how it behaves & sounds.

WAY down the road I'm hoping to put in a Cobb-style intake. Does anyone know if Cobb (or anyone else) has one that'll work on the Legacy EJ22 yet?

#2 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 17 February 2002 - 04:15 PM

I'm pretty sure I'm goin to go the same route you're goin Russ.

The intake filter is goin to be comin off shortly. Especially with the extremely hot temps here in Houston (just drove down yesterday.....10 hrs, 646 miles.....I was good....only broke 100 mph once ;) )

My plans are goin to probably put the stock box back on...put a K&N drop in filter in, and add an extra air pickup to the bottom of the box.

I would love to find/borrow someone else's K&N drop in filter to see how the car drives with it compared to the intake I have now. I have tested the intake I have now compared against the paper filter and stock box. The car revvs MUCH better with the cone filter.....More air....however the bog, or drop of mid range is really starting to piss me off. I need to find another solution.

As for the cobb intake. You will find that it is meant for MAP sensor....ie no place for the MAF sensor. As of now, the only way you'll get it to work is custom do something. That doesn't mean it won't work....but you'll have to get creative. I know you can do that :)

#3 Guest_bart thompson_*

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Posted 17 February 2002 - 04:51 PM

I have the K&N element in the stock intake. Highly recommend it. I climb a steep hill everyday and it makes a world of difference, the car just climbs it easier. Seems faster off the line also.

Here's another thing that I yet to see discussed:
The hood scoop is just a decoration, but it looks like the plate on the underside of the hood comes off with about 6 screws. If the scoop can actually perform some cold air direction, why not use it to "power" an intercooler.? It should be easy to add a heatsink to the plenum right in front of the throttle body.

Has anyone tried this?

#4 Guest_SmashPDX_*

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Posted 17 February 2002 - 04:58 PM

Sounds sensible. If I had a hoodscoop, trust me, I'd be trying to figure out how to make use of it.

#5 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 17 February 2002 - 11:06 PM

I asked about the intercooler thing as well a while back on another group.

You don't want to intercooler a N/A engine. You will create a rather large restriction in the intake, and you'll do more harm then good.

With turbo engines you have higher pressures to help negate the effects of a pressure drop across the intercooler. Plus you have alot higher intake temps because you are compressing the air.

A sorta rule of thumb is that with N/A engines you want a free-flowing intake. With turbo engines, colder intake charge temps help more.

As far as the hood scoop. I have heard of people adding like a ram air thing. With the legacy it would be almost impossible to do because we have a MAF sensor. You would almost have to duct air from the scoop, run it back down towards the front of the car, then to the filter setup. You would want some sort of collector box, or pressure equalization box to help against sudden surges of air pressure or lack there of. To do it right would get pretty hairy.

#6 Guest_Subaru Bob_*

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Posted 17 February 2002 - 11:18 PM

you might just make like an intake under the scoop. similar to an old mopar or ford from the late 60s... that would be a true cold air intake... just a thought...

SubaruBob

#7 Guest_bart thompson_*

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Posted 18 February 2002 - 01:18 AM

The ideas that I had are a lot simpler.

Add a double sided finned heatsink to the top of the plastic box on the throttle body. Not a real intercooler but enough to drastically lower the temp of the intake air, and thus increase the density a bit. The heatsink would have to as large as possible and integrated into the box. The air from the scoop would travel over it and do the cooling.

The other way to do this would be to fabricate a set of pipes out of copper and add the required fittings to make the air flow through them and into the throttle body. The scoop would ram air thru to the pipe matrix and cool the intake.
A bunch of 3/4 inch copper pipe and solder should do the trick. The only hard part is the large diameter stuff and adapting down and back up..

(BTW, what do you mean N/A)
Any thoughts?

#8 Guest_PaganQWA_*

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Posted 18 February 2002 - 01:34 AM

Huggies will be happy :)

#9 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 18 February 2002 - 09:11 AM

I'm not sure I 100% get what your describing with the heat sink thing. If you put a heat sink on the top of the plastic box, how are you going to get the cooler temps to transfer to the intake charge. The only way I see it working is you'd have to put half the cooler in the box, or put a set of cooler tubes or something inside the box. You'd have to make sure it was sealed or else you'd be runnin lean because of too much air in the air/fuel ratio....plus I'm not sure how much benefit that would provide. If I'm thinking way out in left field...please correct me.

The copper pipe thing. You have a legacy correct? Most...if not all have a MAF sensor, you must take this into the equation, as to where it's located and such. You'd have to run some tubing, and copper tubin is going to suck up the heat from the engine compartment.

Not tryin to be a wet blanket, but if you have a MAF sensor, doing intake modifications should really be thought out, or you're goin to end up buying one of those nice little expensive things.

N/A = Normally Aspirated

#10 Guest_George92LegWag_*

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Posted 18 February 2002 - 02:27 PM

They suck. Don't mean to bring you down, but if you want to coolest air possible, bring it from outside the car. An charge cooler in the manner your describe won't help if the outside air is 100 degrees, it can't cool it much below ambient temperature, and your road speed would have to be very high for it to make any difference. For example, when musclecar had hoodscoops, a hood scoop was estimated to add about 1% HP at 100 MPH due to ram air effect. The effect did add slightly more at higher speeds, but the aerodymamic drag created by the scoop quickly overrides any benefit, unless you have a engine with large HP (not a less than 200 HP Subie engine.)

The above applies to the heat sink idea, and copper tube idea is even worse. All the above applies, and the small tubing further restricts airflow, causing more of a power loss all the time than power gained in a short time at high speed.

Save your money and time on this idea, don't bother.

George

#11 Guest_submannz_*

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Posted 18 February 2002 - 02:37 PM

A good place to do air colection for your airbox, is just behind the front grill nice bigish area, and less likely to fill your airbox of water, plus you could put a little trap in for that.

He has a point about water cooling the inlet on a N/A, it will make a difference, water has 4 times more cooling affect than air, hard to describe what he is talking about though.

I'll post a pic to my website.

www.geocities.com/subman2..._inlet.jpg

Dan

#12 Guest_meep424_*

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Posted 18 February 2002 - 07:14 PM

Don't make it so complicated. The solution is easy here...

just INSULATE the intake plenum. No need for a cooler, and it will be cooler than a heatsink catching warm underhood air.

It feels just like starting the car on a cool day, except it has that power all day long.

You WILL notice a difference between seasons, because air temp is much more variable when it's not at 140 from underhood engine temp.

Three Methods:
1) Heat Tape. Some car stores sell it. Easy and neat, might cost a bit.

2) Household plumbing heat tape. Works very well, you'll need a couple of rolls. Does not like to stick to some plastics (like the oily stuff in the newer subes).

3) Insulating wrap, like a cut-up silver plastic sunshade. Wrap the whole thing in sections like a christmas present.

tips: do each part in sections so it can be worked on in the future. Wrap each section with the intake in your lap, removed from the car. take your time-- it looks like something NASA did if you pull it off right.

Also-- You don't have to remove the entire snorky for a gains to be had. In fact, if you appreciate "stealth", leave the lower bulge in tact and just cut the pipe feeding into it. That way it stays quieter but there's still a good improvement in power.

Meep

#13 Guest_25GT_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 09:35 AM

I had the opportunity to purchase a Cobb Tuning Intake at a VERY reasonable price about a month ago and have finally taken the time to modify it for a MAF based legacy. So, without further edue(sp) . . .

RESULTS:
If you're thinking about an intake, look no further. Bogging issues . . . NONE. Low end torque loss . . . NONE. Increase in midrange torque . . . slight. Increase in high end power . . . UNBELIEVEABLE!!

I took the time to flog the hell outta my car before the installation of the intake. I used to have the stock intake with silencer removal mod plus K&N filter. The intake made nice low-midrange torque . . . with a torque peak at 4000rpms . . . after that, the engine would just not pull as hard. I would also notice a severe bogging/hiccup at 5500rpm. After installation of the Cobb intake . . .the engine pulls hard from 2500rpm to redline. It still bogs a LITTLE . . . but the engine pulls through the powerband SO FAST, that it is barely noticeable:D

NOISE:
This intake SCREAMS!! I used to own a Minnam intake . . . that thing was loud (similar to a Weapon-R). I don't know how to explain it, but it's a different kinda intake growl. Kinda like the difference between a boxer engine with an exhaust vs. an inline engine with an exhaust. The difference is there. That being said, my exhaust is LOUD, but once I'm at WOT at around 4000rpm, I cannot hear the exhaust anymore!!

Another interesting observation is that the intake makes a hissing/whoosh/whistling sound when the temp is less than 40 degrees outside. I can only compare it to a BOV letting off pressure throughout the powerband. A friend of mine was sitting in his car and wanted me to accelerate past him . . . . he could've sworn it sounded like my car was turboed!! Said he thought he heard a turbo spooling:D

I know what you're thinking . . . this guy is prolly talking out of his rump roast just because he has this intake that he spent good money on that he wants to make himself feel better buying by lying about it's usefulness on the board . . . I thought the same thing after reading some of the hundreds of posts on the I-club about this intake.

Believe it or not . . .it works . . . and it works VERY well!!

I'll post a picture (or link t a picture) of the completed intake hopefully tonight, as I have to meet another I-clubber with a digital camera. More to come . . .

Jason

#14 Guest_SmashPDX_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 01:56 PM

You have this thing on a GT??? I wanna see. How much $?

#15 Guest_25GT_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 03:10 PM

Yup, I have a GT with a phase 2.5L motor but utilizing the DOHC ecu and MAF sensor . . . I can't wait to take pictures of this intake . . . It's badass!!! I hated the look of the open ended cone-style intake . . . but this filter is completely sealed. A true cold air intake:D

I ended up buying the intake used from somebody off the I-club for about $160 (which is why I was willing to take a chance cutting it for my application). You can find the intake at www.cobbtuning.com, but be prepared to shell out $280 and wait a few months as I hear they are backordered:(

Another option is to contact Larry Ganz. His website is www.imprezars.com. He has an agreement with Cobb Tuning to sell the parts needed to make this intake piecemeal . . . don't know who much it would cost from him.

Just in case anybody goes the Cobb Tuning route, these are the additional parts needed (Larry supplies all of these parts, I believe):

3 inch MAF adapter plate (can be had from any Subaru performance shop)
3"-2" rubber hose coupler to seal the intake into the fenderwell (Home Depot).
3"-3" rubber hose coupler to connect filter housing to Maf adapter plate (Home Depot).
Hacksaw to cut aluminum intake tubing.

What I noticed is that I DON'T even need a MAF bracket. The MAF (and intake for that matter) . . . I almost perfectly fixed to the fenderwell, except for a little freeplay from the silicone hose couplers (those rubber couplers are A LOT stiffer).

Additional installation instructions can be provided.

Jason

#16 Guest_25GT_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 03:33 PM

SmashPDX, you already have more than half of the materials needed from your Weapon-R!! HAHA!! I totally forgot the topic of your post!!!

Contact Larry Ganz from his website (www.imprezars.com) and get a prm inline filter. Then, all you'll need is some aluminum tubing to route the intake tract into the fenderwell and the associated hose couplers from Home Depot. Should end up costing you just about as much as I paid ($160).

GET THE INTAKE!!!

Jason

#17 Guest_Lustreking_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 03:59 PM

Yeah that's my plan too. I recently got a used weapon-r tube, and when I get around to it, I'll order the PRM filter from Larry and put together my own 'cobb style' intake.

-Steve

#18 Guest_SmashPDX_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 04:25 PM

Now I *really* want to see those pics.

#19 Guest_schpiro_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 04:31 PM

actually the hoodscoop acts just like many singel and twin engine airplanes. That is they too have air scoops over the engine it creates a positive pressure above the engine and forces a downpressure on the engine and forces the hot air out the bottom of the engine compartment. This is common place on many planes, is fuji industries make planes?

#20 Guest_25GT_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 04:58 PM

SmashPDX, I hope to have some pictures uploaded tonight, if I can meet with another I-Clubber after work:D

Schpiro, Fuji heavy industries does make parts for planes . . . engines, F-16 parts, etc. The reason the hoodscoop is there is more for cooling the intercooler on the Jap-spec cars . . . due to the reasons you've specified.

I have noticed that after a hard run (I have been making A LOT of hard runs lately:D ) the intake tubing is still cool to the touch . . . the aluminum tubing sits conveniently under and behind the hoodscoop, so it serves some purpose.

Jason

#21 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 19 February 2002 - 11:23 PM

Jason....definitely need to see pics....I'd be interested in doin this.....not sure how it would fit though in my 90, in the fender.

other thing.....how much for you K&N drop in panel filter?

Asssumin you want to sell it.

#22 Guest_25GT_*

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Posted 20 February 2002 - 10:00 AM

Josh, you shouldn't have any problems running this exact intake setup on your car. If I remember correctly, my older 90 legacy lsi had the same style airbox as my GT, sans the torque box. The fenderwell coupler fits in the hole that the stock intake was fed from. Since the 2.2L and 2.5L engines are the same dimensions, there shouldn't be a problem. You'll see when the pictures are finally uploaded (we took shots of the entire engine bay, just the intake, and two closeup shots of both the connection into the fenderwell and the MAF sensor connections).

I'm just waiting until my friend uploads the pictures onto his computer.

As for the panel filter . . . if you want it, I'll let it go for $20+shipping. Lemme know if you still want it.

Jason

#23 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 20 February 2002 - 11:03 AM

Yeah I can handle that. I'm goin to do a little custom work with my stock box and additional air inlets on the bottom side of the air box. I want to do some testing with a good K&N panel filter in the stock box with some additional air inlets, compared to my current cone filter setup.

Shoot me an email on how you want to be paid and all that stuff.

#24 Guest_SmashPDX_*

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Posted 20 February 2002 - 12:03 PM

If you need a place to put the pics I'll host 'em. Or maybe throw 'em at Josh. I'm sure either one of us would be interested in keeping those up for posterity :lol:

#25 Guest_25GT_*

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Posted 20 February 2002 - 12:15 PM

or pm'ed ya, or whatever happens when I click on your personal profile:D

You see why I can't post these pictures by myself?

I would give send you guys the pics but as of now, they are in my friend's possession. Sorry.

Jason




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